I found two wonderful dogs, but I also found a bitter and nasty war of ideals and philosophy, rank with dogma, poor logic, and even worse breeding practices. As with most wars, both sides have blood on their hands and both reek of hypocrisy and the shit they’ve been slinging at the other side. Despite my fondness for vicious personal attacks and heated debate, I didn’t expect to find them while looking intently for a cute bundle of fur that would be my next faithful friend.
You’ll hear a lot about the two dogs I found in my search, Dublin and Celeste, for they are easily the best Border Collies I have ever had the pleasure of owning, as much for their own merits as for my growing sophistication as a Border Collie aficionado, and now Border Collie breeder.
Ground zero in the BC war is the battle between the two registries, the ABCA
vs. the AKC.
Every border collie came from a breeder, whether intentional or accidental, and it is that small group of people who are going to determine where the breed is going. If you’ve purchased a purebred registered BC in the last 13 years, you’ve probably come up against the war between the two largest BC registries, the American Border Collie Association (ABCA) and the American Kennel Club (AKC).
In a sweeping generalization, the ABCA is the “working dog” registry and the AKC is the “show dog” registry, or at least that’s how they derive their cachet. Actual working dogs and dogs shown in conformation make up only a fraction of each registry. Despite both organizations’ claims to be about the betterment of the breed and breed health, their raison d’etre is to be book keepers that maintain a database of dog pedigrees for money.
The ABCA registers about 20,000 border collies–and only border collies–per year. The hundred year old International Sheep Dog Society registry in the UK registers around 6,000 border collies per year, and the two registries recognize each other’s papers with good faith and both bill themselves as the working border collie registry. The ABCA requires the breeder to register the entire litter at once, so even dogs that are not going to be bred are registered.
In comparison, the AKC registers just over 2,100 border collies per year, although this figure doesn’t count the numerous unregistered Border Collies that compete in Obedience, Rally, Agility, Herding, Tracking, etc. that are given Indefinite Listing Privilege numbers that allow participation in AKC events without being fully registered with the AKC. The AKC does not require that breeders register their entire litter, leaving this option up to puppy buyers, so not every puppy in every litter ends up on the books.
Even so, this is a far cry from the most popular breeds in the AKC like the Labrador Retrievers, Yorkshire Terriers, German Shepherd Dogs, Golden Retrievers, and Beagles. The Border Collie ranks 56th out of the AKCs 155 breeds and makes up only 0.25% (one in four-hundred) of the 870,000 dogs the AKC registers each year.
| Breed | 2006 Count |
| Retrievers (Labrador) | 123,760 |
| Yorkshire Terriers | 48,346 |
| German Shepherd Dogs | 43,575 |
| Retrievers (Golden) | 42,962 |
| Beagles | 39,484 |
| Dachshunds | 36,033 |
| Boxers | 35,388 |
| Poodles | 29,939 |
| Shih Tzu | 27,282 |
| Miniature Schnauzers | 22,920 |
| Chihuahuas | 22,562 |
| Bulldogs | 21,037 |
| Pugs | 20,008 |
| … | … |
| Border Collies | 2,181 |
The AKC and the English KC register about the same number of Border Collies per year even though the KC registers only 270,000 dogs annually. The Border Collie is in the UK’s top 30:
Labrador Retriever 45,700 Cocker Spaniel 20,459 English Springer Spanial 15,133 German Shepherd Dog (Alsatian) 12,857 Staffordshire Bull Terrier 12,729 Cavalier King Charles Spaniel 11,411 Golden Retriever 9,373 West Highland White Terrier 9,300 Boxer 9,066 Border Terrier 8,916 Rottweiler 6,575 Shih Tzu 4,436 Miniature Schnauzer 4,396 Lhasa Apso 4,154 Yorkshire Terrier 4,042 Bulldog 3,522 Dobermann 3,388 Bull Terrier 3,361 Weimaraner 2,744 Pug 2,681 Whippet 2,672 Dogue de Bordeaux (Imp) 2,361 Bichon Frise 2,329 Border Collie 2,219
After 13 years of AKC recognition, the Border Collie has evened out at 9:1 ratio of Working Registry dogs to Show Registry dogs, compared with the UK where the Border Collie has been shown for over a decade longer than in the US and has a ratio of 2.7 ISDS dogs to each KC dog. As best as I can tell, conformation showing started in the early 1980s in England, in 1995 in the United States, and in the late 1950s in Australia and New Zealand. The significant head start that the “Oz” dogs had in conformation showing has resulted in a handful of Australian kennels dominating the UK and US show lines.
The ABCA started in the early 1980s, although it wasn’t the predominant US registry until the collapse of the American International Border Collie registry and the North American Sheep Dog Society registry, leaving the lone ABCA to cater specifically to the breed. The ABCA website quotes 100,000 BCs registered by 1997, and roughly 20,000 dogs per year since then. Unlike the AIBC and the NASDS which were privately held businesses run by individuals which promptly fell apart following the founder’s deaths, the ABCA is a more democratic organization that will likely survive future transitions of power despite its current leadership comprising many members who have been with the organization from the start.
The rise of the ABCA and the details of their fight against AKC recognition is documented in a book by author and Border Collie enthusiast, Donald McCaig. It’s called “The Dog Wars: How the Border Collie Battled the American Kennel Club.” I’ve written about the book several times, and I’ll be reposting many of those discussions in the coming days.
Despite the advertising hype, dogma, and theoretical vitriol thrown at the AKC by the ABCA establishment, there are a list of things that neither registry does that is really troubling:
Neither registry requires any sort of health testing to register dogs from current stock. DNA, X-Ray, Eye Exams play no part in becoming a breeder or owner if you buy or breed dogs that already have registration numbers with the ABCA or AKC or a registry they accept transfers from. The ABCA requires PRA and CEA testing only for imported dogs and eye exams for the handful of dogs running in the National Finals. Despite CEA being a rather minor condition and the availability of DNA tests to determine carrier status, no puppies from a CEA or PRA dog can be registered even if they are clear or carriers.
The only required tests are for imported stock, ROM stock, dogs in the National Finals, and dogs that are registered more than two years after birth. This is a scant few dogs. CEA is a minor disease and PRA is very rare. There are more common and more lethal diseases that play no part in the current testing and registration scheme.
This scheme is essentially telling you to wipe your feet at the door, but pay no mind to the festering carpets inside.
Neither registry requires reporting or publication of any test results. Even if you do test, the registry and the world never has to know about good or bad results. You can bet that a false sense of security arises out of under-reporting of bad results and an over emphasis of good results.
Neither registry prevents in-breeding or line breeding to any degree. The ABCA website says the following:
Can in-bred pups be registered? Yes. No policy governs in-breeding or line-breeding.
Are there known health problems with in-breeding dogs? Yes. Ask your veterinarian’s advice, or read a comprehensive dog genetics book.
Read a comprehensive dog genetics book? HAH! What a plan! The people who chair the Health and Genetics committee of the ABCA need to read one of those books and so do the AKC breeders. I’ve caught both of them in serious misunderstandings of basic genetics and even outright buffoonery.
Having no proviso against inbreeding is very dangerous, especially since in-breeding and linebreeding are favorite tools of the self proclaimed elite breeders. Chasing after popular studs, trying to recreate a famous winning dog by inbreeding his descendants, or dangerous linebreeding to create a signature kennel look happen all the time with little to no remorse when it all goes bad.
Neither registry keeps any sort of health information database. The closest you’ll find is the option of including eye exam results or hip results on the pedigree, but there is no requirement, and the number of breeders volunteering key information is vanishingly small. You’d be hard pressed to find a pedigree with enough volunteered health information on it to be useful in making a breeding decision.
http://www.bordercolliehealth.com is an independent publicly searchable health database for DNA testing of Border Collies. It should be said that the AKC breeder who is instrumental in establishing and maintaining this database recently supervised a close breeding on a past winning dog which produced a litter that was ravaged by the untreatable and incurable Trapped Neutrophil Syndrome (TNS). Most of the puppies died, and only one was clear. And guess what, no remorse from the breeders and the one clear puppy is currently being shown towards his breed championship.
Neither registry has any criteria for membership other than payment. There are no requirements for breeder education, there is not so much as an ethics pledge required. Although, the ABCA does suggest you be “of good moral character.”
Neither registry requires registered dogs to meet any performance standard or physical standard or any standard at all, written or implied. The ABCA won’t turn away your stud dog/bitch if it is aggressive and kills sheep, has no eye, can’t outrun because of horrible joints, and can’t even learn the sit command. The AKC won’t turn your stud dog/bitch away if it is ugly and has a fault in every element of the breed standard or if it can’t limp through an agility course or even if it’s congenitally blind and deaf and can’t hope to train in Obedience. So an ABCA pedigree says nothing about your dog’s ability to herd and an AKC pedigree says nothing about your dog’s Conformation or Agility or Obedience, per se.
For the excessive degree to which these organizations take themselves seriously as champions of the future of Border Collies, when you brush away the makeup, you’re left with a simple biblical list of dog begat dog begat dog begat dog, with about as much verifiability and relevance as such lists in the old testament have to do with modern dating, mating, and health practices.
Neither registry offers much protection against puppy millers other than the higher cost of registration than less reputable registries. The ABCA has only banned known puppy millers after they have been found to falsify pedigree information. There have only been 4 disciplinary actions. Here is the stated
reason Swafford (I think some of the other actions are related to Swafford, i.e. his children/associates) was removed:
It was determined through an ABCA investigation that Richard Swafford’s breeding practices and kennel conditions were not conducive to accurate registration.
Because the evidence showed systematic misrepresentation by Mr. Swafford of the identity and parentage of the dogs he sold, any dog which passes through his kennel must be regarded as suspect.
That being said, some of the removed parties now use associates to register dogs with registries and still sell them advertising ABCA registration (among others). Apparently one of them has also started their own registry that accepts transfers from just about anyone.
The AKC does investigate breeders who register 7 or more litters per year and randomly investigates breeders who register 4-6 litters. They don’t publish their disciplinary actions that I can find. The AKC has also worked with the Hunte Corporation, the nation’s largest puppy broker. They have begun using DNA testing, but again, this is not for disease, this is simply to prove that the breeder has been scamming the AKC by grouping puppies into fake litters to save on registration fees.
So for all the elitism involved with having either a “herding” bred BC or a “show” bred BC, these terms really only apply to the people who don’t herd, don’t show, don’t train, don’t compete and really don’t do anything with their dogs that’s noteworthy. Only these people find such advertisements as “champion sired” or “from working stock” to be valuable. Herding people will ALWAYS be able to produce more than enough dogs for their herding and trialing needs, and so will the show, obedience, agility, frisbee, and flyball people. So why do registries fight so viciously to fool the hoi polloi? Because the uninformed masses are their bread and butter.
People who breed for specific needs (the breeding members of the AKC and ABCA) and who are involved in dog sport of any kind produce entire litters every time they are trying to make just one special dog for their activity. All the other puppies must be sold. And for people who breed and sell all the puppies, they need receptive buyers who are unlikely to be sophisticated and know the intricate workings of dog breeding and selecting. The registry that wins the PR war provides the most fertile dumping ground for all the extra puppies that are produced. The more fertile the dumping ground, the more their membership can breed to succeed, and the more money the registry makes through all the extra dogs that get registered.
The AKC sponsors several performance activities and awards titles for those events. Having an AKC pedigree isn’t necessary for most of them. Conformation is the only event that doesn’t allow ILP dogs of all kind, and events like Lure Coursing only award points to Sight Hound breeds, but the menu of available dog sport activities is long and varied. Obedience, Agility, Herding, Rally, Tracking, Earth Dog, and Canine Good Citizen are among the many programs the AKC sponsors.
The ABCA’s sister organization, the USBCHA (US Border Collie Handlers’ Association) sponsors herding trials and doesn’t require your dog to be a border collie or have papers of any kind. Even though the ABCA will not register any dogs with AKC in their pedigree and kick out any dogs shown in AKC conformation, the prettiest show BC can still compete in the USBCHA’s trial system. The ABCA does partially sponsor the purse at the National Finals and has a program where members can get money to hold local events like sheep trials or eye clinics.
Even if you include the work of the USBCHA, the ABCA’s reach is mostly relevant to active breeders in the ABCA and the top level handlers who attend the trials that the ABCA is involved in. Despite “owning” most of the Border Collie gene pool, they really can’t compete with the size and scope of programs and polish that the AKC can provide its members. While the AKC might not own a lot of the Border Collie, it does own a LOT more dogs in general, and this is essentially a gravity well that will continue to suck in orbiting breeds that it slowly draws in.
No registry and no single dog activity seeks to create the best pet BC, and that’s what all dogs are 95% of the time. Herding sheep well or looking pretty doesn’t guarantee or even suggest desirable qualities of a pet. Despite their elitism, the ABCA and AKC zealots aren’t looking out for people who want well rounded dogs who are as much family as they are a work tool or a beautiful specimen.
Neither side fights the border war for me or the BC ideal I’d like to maintain for myself. I’m an instant outsider because I don’t believe in the holiness of a conformation standard, nor do I feel that the Border Collie need be only bred as a tool to move stock and all the other concerns and uses should simply subsist off of the leftovers and castoffs of the herding community.
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Anton
Christopher
Lawrence Dillard
Lech
Stephanie
Essere
One might ask why your dog needs to be a BC, as there are a number breeds and mutts that would fit bill.
On the other hand, there will always be folks that work to recreate a notion from days gone by, whether this be cars, trains, horses or dogs.
I think the Third Estate is going to end up being _how_ specific breeds survive.
The Third Estaters are interested in the “four on the floor”, and know full well papers won’t get you that extra foot, cut down that split second, or intuitive partner that carries you in a blank moment.
At the same time, Third Estaters know a good combination when they see it, and are not shy about persuing crosses and mixes.
From what I have seen.
So tell me this, we know what ABCA and AKC is about. Money talks then, now, and in the future. I do not care that I am an outsider to them.
Why do you?
Eli
Excellent comment, and questions that are hard to answer.
I don’t know that my breed needs to be a BC, I inherited them and have never found a reason to jump ship. There is most certainly nostalgia involved.
And unlike other who have come to the BC because of their love of a dog sport, I came the other way. My higher allegiance is to the breed.
I don’t, however, believe that the blood pool is sacred and that a hybrid, or even an out cross to another breed to bring in new diversity would be a bad thing.
And in terms of dog sport, of course there are many other breeds and mutts that excel. And a number of the purebreds have their own working vs. show vs. sport battles that probably mirror the BC Wars in many details.
I’m all for days gone by and keeping a memory alive. My big beef is what these people are willing to do intentionally or unintentionally to the future of the breed in the process.
I’m a free market kind of guy and these groups are clearly not. They want to limit options and exclude participation.
I also feel very positively about the mixes and crosses that are created by the Third Estaters. Other bloggers seem to think that dogs like the Border Jack are an abomination or a passing fad. I don’t think so. Unlike countless breeds who no longer have a purpose, the Border Jack certainly does.
I also find them interesting as the JRT and the BC are two breeds with the most remaining genetic diversity and heterozygosity.
Your final questions is another complicated one, but the short answer is convenience and access. It’s much easier to work within the established system than outside of it, and if you jump ship you also have to give up the fringe benefits.
For instance, people who are neither Republicans nor Democrats still have a stake in what those groups do as we have a de facto two party system in the US.
Like it or not, the ABCA and the AKC have a lot of power to shape the breed and they are both standing in the way of well meaning people doing smart things with their breeding programs.
“Having an AKC pedigree isn’t necessary for most of them. Conformation is the only event that doesn’t allow ILP dogs of all kind,”
is not exactly true. You can only ILP a dog who appears to be a purebred AKC breed dog. I’ve been able to ILP my pits as Amstaffs, but I probably wouldn’t be able to get Luce’s ILP now because they’ve gotten stricter recently and she’s decidedly not an Amstaff. It irks me that they won’t allow non-AKC purebreds or mixed breed dogs in their companion sports.
Steve will be both AKC and ABCA registered, which amuses me. I also find it amusing that the ABCA will dump any dog who gets an AKC conformation championship. ZOMG teh Barbie Collies. Form follows function, and dammit we don’t want our dogs to be pretty!
Yeah, I didn’t mean to imply that the AKC is welcoming to any mutt. They do have their standards, you know. It has to at least look like it might be a purebred dog.
The “what breed should I say my mix is for ILP” is pretty common. And I do remember that a year or so ago the AKC sent out a questionnaire on if they should open the competition ranks of mutts. I responded 100% in favor, and so did most of the membership.
I don’t know where the issue is now. I say the more competition the better… it is an objective competition after all.
Dublin is dual registered, and there is zero chance he’ll be kicked out of the ABCA for winning a show championship… but it’s rather sad to me that Celeste and her offspring are banned and the ROM program isn’t objective. You need a near unanimous vote of the board, and some of them are such major bigots against the barbie collie that I’m pretty sure that you could win the International and still be out of the club.
It’d be nice if they spent a little more time being a REGISTRY (they don’t even publish their stud books) and a little less time enforcing politics on to the gene pool.
In short, I was venting.
I like Border Collies, as a breed. I also appreciate what they are to those who dedicate their lives to ensuring their future.
I myself have been around dogs most of my life. Not until a few years ago were they more than a farm dog or pet.
I picked up a stray ACD and have been playing flyball wwith him for two years now. Not knowing much about them, I started digging up information on the breed. Particularly since conversation with fellow dog sport/working dog enthusiasts inevitably got around to the PRC issue.
And I found that for most ACD folks, PRC and deafness is a feature of the breed. You just have to mix and match the helicals.
This sounds less than sincere to me.
So my question is, how do you increase the genetic diversity of a breed? Do you return to the “roots”, and create additional branches from scratch? Would this even be meaningful. What about some of the rather sketchy periods in ACD history. Are they meaningful to what an ACD is today?
I think the ACD has a fairly unique color pattern and combination. An ACD cross/mix is easy to spot, they appear to type very strongly. Would it be a big deal to cross with dogs such as the McNab and Kelpie?
In reading articles and blogs on this and related subjects, it occurred to me that I was looking for a specific dog. And that what I was looking for had more to do with genetic health, agility, quickness, size, strength, endurance, amenability, devotion to duty and man, stubbornness, and intelligence than color and shape.
It doesn’t mean that I have stopped looking for ACD breeders with higher standards than a Registry. But I do know that I won’t find that breeder in dog magazines. Which is my frustration. And what you are talking about. The AKC brand is no help, even though the concept says it aught to.
Eli
Vent away, that is welcome here. Other bloggers have issues with provocative comments and argument, but I’m not looking for a one way platform.
If my ideas about dogs are to stand the test of time, they have to stand up against agreement and criticism, and I’m interested in being correct versus winning and an empty debate because the other side doesn’t pipe up.
————————
I share your frustration and there are many reasons to be frustrated.
But lets see if I can give my 2cents on some questions. The first way to add diversity to your gene pool is to stop limiting diversity. Along the lines of “to get out of a whole, the first step is to stop digging.”
The major factors that limit diversity are popular sire effect and inbreeding. Inbreeding immediately condenses the diversity and greatly increases incidence of disease genes that are more by chance more prevalent in the related dogs than in the general gene pool.
The popular sire effect works more slowly, as it takes several generations for those genes to find each other again in offspring, but when the sire is popular enough, you reach the amazing situation where the concentration of that dog’s genes actually grows over time, after the dog is dead.
This is the situation we see in the Border Collie.
“Only breed the best to the best and you’ll get the best” is a self fulfilling prophecy…of failure. See, if you have a small group of people who get to determine what the best is, then they all end up breeding to that dog, then of course all future champions will be related to that dog and you’ll here “look how many champions this line has produced.”
Well, if the core breeders are such fad followers (and they are, the evidence is undeniable), and someone has to win the championship every year (or every show), no matter what, then surprise surprise when a “line” will have so many champions in it. It’s selection bias, not the amazing ability of champions to beget champions.
As for increasing diversity NOW while we wait for specific gene therapies, the Dalmation backcross project is a perfect example of how you can knock out a prevalent disease and only give up .01% of your “pure bred” status. And it only took a few generations and now there is a great well of slightly more healthy dogs to breed to.
Sadly, they didn’t tackle the deafness issue while they were going after sludge in the kidneys.
Funny, I was just at the Alberta Stock Dog Association annual meeting on Saturday where this issue came up. As handlers we are warned to avoid anything associated with the AKC as it could impact our ability to compete at sanctioned trials (North America). My understanding is the working dog associations/registries fear the AKC breeding will “ruin” the breed. The fear is the BC and their breeding will become so far removed from their original purpose thus taking many of their positive traits away. Such as has occured with various other breeds. All of the people (trialers) I know who raise working puppies are rather ruthless about quality. Even if it’s registered they’ll insist on the animal being altered as a condition of the sale. Or on some farms and ranches, that animal meets an untimely demise.
PS. I really enjoy your blog. Learn lots!
I’d heard this fall that the BC who won a national herding title was ALSO a got his conformation championship. I wish I could have found the facts out to post this…I can’t even find the dog’s name. But it was much discussed on the Show Border Collie message board. They were ecstatic that a Barbie Collie could herd the daylights out of the farm dogs, all while looking ever so pretty.
Fenway,
Is this the dog you’re thinking of?
http://borderwars.blogspot.com/2007/09/barbie-collies-can-herd.html
Or has there been another high achieving dog with show lines?
Nope, Chris, Davidson was the dog I was referring to. As you may have gleaned from my blog, I’d be considered a barbie collie because I compete in the conformation ring. I come from a line of champions and my mama was a BC bitch of the year and on the ROM for conformation.
Too bad that this part of me trumps the rest of the package. I am a “complete” bc, through and through and the reason my owners wanted me was because I’m structurally sound of both body and temperament.
While I’m doing shows, I’m also learning agility and am already a damn good frisbee dog. I have a high drive and am quite biddable. Sheep and herding lessons are in my future.
Back to the show ring…my peeps believe this activity forges a strong bond and we are a team. The same for agility. In fact, everything we do stresses the human-dog bond. It’s very strong and that’s why my Alphas wanted a bc in the first place.
So, I guess I’m trapped in the middle of the battle. I’m really pretty, structurally sound and well made.
as athletic as Lebron James and a canine Einstein. Too bad ABCA feels threatened by the complete package.
By the way, I know that BC that’s on the AKC website…that’s the one you have pictured on that blog. IMHO he’s got really short legs and would be no match for a sheep. LOL
Is that a no or a yes on Harley errr… “Davidson” being the “barbie” collie that ranked highly at the national finals? Harley is a female and so is her handler.
If it is a yes, then I’m the one who broke that story with the original post linked above.
If not, I’d like to hear about it, as it’s another bit of evidence that shows the sheeple aversion to “versatility” is a little misplaced.
The breeder and owner are mad at me for not pulling the story because they didn’t want to get into the middle of any turf war (but the breeder did and still does brag about the accomplishment on her website) and the owner/handler might not want the wrath of the sheeple, but I consider the issue too important to ignore.
Both of the main BC boards have linked to the story and had their huff, even Donald McCaig chimed in on the issue (probably because I emphasized that he got beaten by said dog).
I’m also aware of your breeder, I’m pretty sure I’ve pissed her off on one occasion or another on one of the show lists. This is not particularly unusual, though, I’ve pissed off plenty of sheeple and showple.
Frankly, I find the show people as clicky and intolerant as the sheeple, and they too hate their hypocrisies being pointed out.
And don’t get too excited about Border Collie excellence in the ring, it’s not a very competitive sport here in the US, there simply aren’t very many people who show the breed and even fewer popular lines. Success is a matter of endurance and money to seek out majors.
And really, the BC is never going to be an “in” dog in the show world… only one herding dog has ever won BIS at Westminster and that was years ago, a German Shepherd, and the owner was a Firestone heiress.
And what’s with posting content from my blog and not linking back? A hat tip for the Jiffy story would be nice, but I’m more concerned with using my definition of a Barbie Collie and not using quotes or linking. Tisk tisk.
And Fenway, I’m really not sure what you mean by the AKC BC image having legs that are too short. I think you’re mistaking coat with structure.
Specifically, you appear to have the exact same proportions as the AKC image:
Fenway vs. BC Standard
No, I mean structure. Trust me…in person I am VERY different than the dog in the official AKC BC breed image. Next to me he looks like a corgi and he’s a true barbie. It’s insidious that the AKC chose this particular dog to showcase the breed.
He’s got a beautiful coat, is always immaculately groomed and handled by a top pro. So he presents well—sometimes. But this dog is exactly what the ABCA doesn’t want.
The two photos are not exactly is scale…close but off. I'm a bit smaller in my photo and I'm only 7 1/2 months in that photo. Still, you'll see that I have a longer neck, longer legs and a flatter topline.
Trust me—in person that dog looks like a corgi. It's a shame that the AKC uses his image to promote & explain the breed. A dog like that only fuels the border wars.
really fascinating set of blogposts, Christopher!
They are actually IDENTICAL to the debates the “gamedog” cultists have with “those of us who want a modern AST/APBT/SBT without reference to dogfighting” though in a more civilized way (herding being civilized, dogfighting NOT).
The essential dilemma for ALL purpose-created breeds (especially those involved in “blood sports”) is how to maintain the qualities you treasure without being able to engage in the activities that created the breed.
I’m not sure I agree that agility/weightpull/tracking/frisbee, whatever mimic the real work that “working” dogs performed. But certainly these sports are the closest we can get. At least SOME of the AKC breed clubs (like the AST parent club) have special awards for dogs that achieve performance titles.
EmilyS –
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think dog sport mimics work, or that it should. Why have a substitute when the original is still available?
I think that dog sport brings out the same positive qualities in Border Collies that can be found with working dogs and trialing dogs. No dog sport except sheep trials will create Border Collies that are excellent herding dogs because no other sport than trialing tests herding ability. That just makes sense.
But dog sports and other training activities do bring out and encourage health, fitness, physical agility, extreme intelligence, bidability, trainability, drive, etc.
Form does follow function, and no show ring judge will ever create a dog more agile than an agility judge nor a dog that can move sheep with more ease than a trialing judge. There is simply no reason to believe otherwise.
My position is that a breed is more than its antiquated function, it is a set of skills and traits and that continue to be attractive. With your AST/APBT/SBT, for instance, a whole bucket full of traits came along in the package and it’s clear that you and many others want to preserve those while throwing out the traits that are specific only to bloodsport.
Perhaps my Border Collie need not be called a Border Collie any more, and perhaps your breed needs a new name for a new focus. These are simply questions of semantics despite all the hatred and energy thrown at them. Both you and I essentially want access to a specific gene pool and the best name for the gene pool I want to wade in is “Border Collie” and for you it is AST/APBT/SBT.
continued…
you wrote: “My position is that a breed is more than its antiquated function, it is a set of skills and traits and that continue to be attractive. With your AST/APBT/SBT, for instance, a whole bucket full of traits came along in the package and it’s clear that you and many others want to preserve those while throwing out the traits that are specific only to bloodsport”
Yes, and in addition in the case of pit bulls, throw out the whole “cult” of the gamedog because it’s so damn unsavory and counterproductive. Not a problem that Border Collies have (though I gather you regard the “sheeples” as a kind of cultist LOL)… but perhaps a problem the Terrierman might have one day with his “blood” sport.
As currently structured, the conformation show world is a near-disaster for almost all breeds (a very few exception for breeds with strong clubs that educate judges and hold them and breeders to the… GASP … breed standard.
And almost all of the ASTs and SBTs that compete in legal sports are non-breedable ILPs. (There are many registered UKC APBTs that compete at least in weight pull). If you wanted an AKC AST or SBT from parents with sport titles and health tests, you’d be very hard pressed to find a breeder.
If border collies go the same way, from where will you find a genepool for dogs that are proven and tested?
“If border collies go the same way, from where will you find a genepool for dogs that are proven and tested?”
Sadly, there aren’t many reasons to believe that any breed, and BCs are no different, won’t ‘regress to the mean’ inside of any registry. And it’s certainly possible that the AKC breeders could dilute and ruin the breed just like the vast majority of other breeds there.
It’s hard to wade in a cesspool and come out clean, no?
If the AKC bug is contagious (and by bug I mean breeding strictly for show and inbreeding and platonic breed standards and all that), then I imagine that I’ll have to jump ship from the AKC.
While this has drawbacks, there are other registries out there. And hell, I don’t think that the registry is going to ever by my dogs’ highest selling point, so even though some of the other registries are known for being havens for high volume breeders and puppy mills, I actually think any registry can perform the basic function of keeping a record of pedigrees.
Everything else is really up to breeders. So I think I will always be able to find the dogs I want to breed to, and where they end up registered is a side issue. An important issue, but still a side issue.
That’s really the source of my frustration. I think registries should exist to (1) keep records and (2) facilitate best practices in breeding. There simply is not a registry that does those two things well.
Heck, I’ve taken both of my breeding dogs back in their pedigrees as far as any registry can, and I only have a few gaps from registries that no longer exist, but for all intents and purposes, I could incorporate the “Astraean Border Collie Registry” and publish my own pedigree papers. They’d be just as accurate as any papers any other registry could give you and the politics would be 100% in line with my own.
And while I’m at it, I should also give some recognition to the other registries besides the AKC that host performance events. And for the NON-Registry aligned bodies that host performance events. Perhaps they are the future, entirely independent governing bodies.
I know that there are multiple venues to do agility and obedience and flyball, and that not all of them are linked with a pedigree pusher. More power to them I say, more power to them.
AMEN to your entire post! Thank you for this. I wish this were front and center in Google when someone types in the word, “Border Collies.”
Bless you for speaking the truth! I thought I was the only one who was stuck in the middle or as you say an outsider. I have had two border collies both registered abca and both were/are excellent companions. One wasn’t interested in herding so we did flyball and hiked every mountain in NH, the other loves agility and snuggling (the boy) I just lost my first one and am looking for a pup and I’m appalled at how the two sides speak of each other. I have friends who have AKC bc’s and they have just as much herding instinct and drive if not more than my abca bcs…….it doesn’t matter where you get your pup as long as the breeder is reputable….Border collies are more than herding and beauty, they are the “bestest” friend you’ll ever have. I don’t care where they are from they are all bc’s and they are game for whatever you want to do just please love them, keep them busy both physically and mentally and enjoy these magnificent creatures!! If you do not have at least 2 hours a day to devote solely to them than please don’t keep them and that goes to all of you herding/breeders that have so many borders they are either crated too long or aren’t given a proper place in your home and family…they are not a tool, they are your best friend so please don’t treat them like property!! I say this as my bc’s feet are in my face as he lies in my bed with me tired from a long day of running, swimming and playing ball. We need a new registry the ABCLA (American Border Collie Lovers Association) just love them! They are all so unique and special and they are not with us very long…I lost my first girl 2 weeks ago at 12.5 years of age and miss her terribly but I have no regrets she lived her life to the fullest with me right up to the end and now I want to give the same awesome bc life to another pup but these AKC and abca breeders have me so confused I don’t know what to do or where to purchase one from….can’t we just all get along???
I really appreciate the views you express I was an AKC performance judge till I grew too old and was seriously injured. I had a gorgeous black and white border collie. He was a confirmation Champion Obedience Champion he had one more tracking title to get and he would have had his tracking championship and he was close to his agility Championship not only passed away from a really nasty looking dog disease. I am looking for a breeder that breeds Border Collies what are kind of all around with Gorgeous looks is it possible for you to recommend me any breeders Half Breed all around great looking healthy dogs.
I appreciate the views that you have expressed I appreciate the views that you’ll have expressed. I had a border collie. He it was out of New Zealand lines “Clan Abby”. He was one of the most beautiful dog Border Collies I have ever seen and owner handled he got his breed championships in 7 shows. He also had his OTCH. Was very close to his agility and tracking championship when he succumbed to valley fever 11 years of age. He also became my service dog after my lumbar spine was crushed at work. He was so easy to train try to do anything I challenged him with and always by my side. I am looking for a breeder that breeds dogs that are like this prescription good all-around beautiful dogs. I have no idea of where to look can you suggest some breeders for me please
Thank you for this wealth of knowledge if I have a male registered ABCA and a female AKC and I breed them with either allow the registration of the puppies?
As was mentioned I think the beef with AKC is there track record of ruining breeds. The reason BC have the most diverse genome of any breed is they were selected by their ability and intelligence. Not sure if enough is paid to temperament as the smaller ones I’ve been around have fairly poor temperament compared to a larger BC. When you put emphasis on physical traits you are at the same time reducing the diversity of the genome and also selecting for undesirable traits. AKC overall has made dogs in the U.S. far less healthy and shortened lifespans. Really a hack organization with no understanding of the science/ genetics of canines. Avoid a pure bred AKC dog at all cost as a pet. If you are a BC breeder I wouldn’t consider any puppy if both parents are AKC. Even before genetic test for canines were available the field of population genetics predict the poor outcomes that AKC polices promoted so it’s not that the science hasn’t been there for 50 plus years.
Seems to me that if these registries don’t promote health in breeds and/or prevent inbreeding and puppy mills- they’re useless. Guess I’ll just keep my bucks and buy better food and better toys for my BC.