Rejected Champion Ithani versus a more moderate Neapolitan Mastiff
To the surprise of no one, the Neapolitan Mastiff and the English Mastiff have joined the ranks of failed Best of Breed dogs at this year’s Crufts due to failed Vet checks. I predicted the fall of the Neo soon after the first reports hit that dogs were being failed for eye issues. CC Lux/Slo Ch Ithani and Ch. Secret Charm Avec Dibest will not be seen in the groups or Best in Show.
You don't have to be the Great Karnak to predict that the Neapolitan Mastiff would have failed the eye exam at Crufts.
The (English) Mastiff people knew this was coming as well, as this “Bad Omen as Bulldog and Peke Fail” thread documents. People in the breed state “I noticed it talked about ectropion on Mastiffs. Very few Mastiffs have no trace of ectropion,” and “Ectropin would eventually die off genetically if Mastiffs that carried it weren’t allowed to advance in the show ring. At our present state, I don’t think any of the Mastiffs would be allowed to advance… .”
The brand new exams being carried out by Veterinary surgeons at Crufts are very limited tests, they are not diagnostic for the complete range of conditions that many breeds suffer from and the Vets are not even allowed stethoscopes to listen do a dog’s breathing. Still, a growing list of dogs have been failed by these tests for extant health conditions.
When the Pekingese and English Bulldogs failed, the rumbling was “eye issues” even though no confirmation of this has surfaced. When the Clumber Spaniel failed a photo of the Vet’s inspection sheet surfaced confirming that ectropion and secondary eye and ear infections due to that ectropion were present in the winning bitch.
What appears to be the Vet exam form for the failed Clumber Spaniel.
Despite the Vet exam documenting the ectropion, the owner claims no such condition exists in her dog and that this is a massive conspiracy because she’s from a small foreign country.
Bilateral Ectropion – particularly marked in the Right Lower Lid lead to diamond eye conformation. Has secondary conjunctivitis: right eye. Unilateral otitis external right ear – causing only mild clinical problem not sufficient to disqualify.
Here’s a video of the owner claiming that it was simply some redness in the eyes due to exertion and a hot ring.
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This stands against both the photographic evidence of the Vet report, but you can also SEE the ectropion on the dog’s eyes in the video. The claim that the ring was 100° is also suspect as visitors at Crufts have consistently commented that Hall 4 at the event has had the air conditioning blasted at full force and that it is almost uncomfortably chilly compared to the other exhibit halls. Coincidence or not, every single brachycephalic breed has been shown in Hall 4 for their breed competitions including the Pekes and the Bulldogs.
The "Champion of 30 Countries" is still an ectropion mess, regardless of the owner's claims.
Sadly, severe ectropion has come to be a breed feature instead of a fault in Bassets.
So what is Ectropion? Ectropion is an inherited genetic disorder where the skin of the lower eyelid is weakened causing the lid to fit poorly to the eye and turn outward. There is often a crase where this loose skin folds, creating a diamond shaped appearance to the eye. It is commonly seen in breeds that have been bred for excess loose skin and is likely caused by the same underlying mechanism which compromises the connective tissue, droopy “furnishings” mean droopy eyelids.
The poor fitting eyelids cause the sensitive tissues underneath the lid to become dried out and inflamed (conjunctivitis) and allow debris and allergens to enter the eye. It is not surprising that the Clumber Spaniel was found to have both an eye and ear infection, probably caused by the ectropion. In some breeds the nictitating membrane (often called the “haw”) becomes chronically irritated and visible and they tear constantly, discoloring the coat and giving the dogs a “hush puppy” weepy appearance.
The condition can be fixed surgically the same way that other excess and loose skin conditions are fixed, by removing some of the skin and stitching it tight. Breeds which are particularly predisposed to this issue are: Basset Hounds, Bloodhounds, Clumber and Cocker Spaniels, English Bulldogs, Mastiffs, Newfoundlands, St. Bernards, etc.
Until now, no one has mustered the courage to take on the wide acceptance of ectropion in many breeds, so congratulations to the Vets at Crufts for finally saying “not here, not now, not anymore.”
As Jemima Harrison noted in Pedigree Dogs Exposed: Three Years On, there are actually normal, healthy, and moderately built Neapolitan Mastiffs out there if one only takes the time to look for them. Just look at how different this working Neo is from what is seen in the show ring.
Now compare that working dog to Ithani who won and then was stripped of Best of Breed at Crufts:
The failed Neapolitan Mastiff Ithani
A good decision, clearly a good decision, to deny a mess like this Best of Breed.
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Loose lids are a particularly bad fault in any dog that is expected to work outdoors in any sort of cover. Which, for the record, is kind of the point of a spaniel. This kind of fault is exactly the point of evaluating conformation in working animals: to eliminate glaring faults that clearly impede the dog’s ability to function at its job.
Raegan recently posted..Adam’s Task II: Preface
That Clumber has probably never seen a grassy field, and yet it still has a persistent ear and eye infection? Not fit or function, not fit for pampering either.
I understand that the Clumber Spaniel in question has some sort of working certificate….although I don’t know what it is. As far as Clumbers go….this little bitch was actually quite moderate with no excessive features like some I’ve seen. It was also quite slim and not obese like others. I was really surprised that the dog failed considering what else is out there.
Annie Macfarlane (Scotland UK) recently posted..About KC Registered Puppies
I think it’s more that, even though the Clumber was less exaggerated than most of its breed, it still didn’t rate a pass on the base health check. I assume these checks are an examination on each dog individually on their own merits, rather than comparing them to what’s typical in the breed as a whole.
The question is not “Is this a healthy Clumber?”
The question is “Is this a healthy DOG?”
Raegan recently posted..Adam’s Task II: Preface
Here’s on what the vet is checking for…
Fantastic find Dodo, thanks.
persistent’?/ where does it say that?
It’s serious enough to spread from the eye to the ear or ear to the eye. That’s not a fleeting infection.
They needed that loose skin to kill Christians in the Colosseum.
Retrieverman recently posted..Neapolitan mastiff fails Crufts health test!
You want to horrify yourself do a google image search for ‘ectropion.’ Just ‘ectropion.’ Do not put ‘dogs’ in the search box.
Jess recently posted..Weird Ass Bitch Syndrome
It’s a feature of harlequin ichthyosis. Now that will give you nightmares.
I find it interesting that on a human, ectropion is really, really horrifying. On a dog, it’s breed feature.
Interesting psychology going on there.
Jess recently posted..Weird Ass Bitch Syndrome
Definately a good decision. I wish the vets would have done health exams on all the exhibits prior to any awards however. There may have been some dogs with poorer breed type and less exaggerated features who would have passed the health checks and been less extreme and healthier breed representatives. Those less extreme dogs would have been the ones that should have been awarded and sent to the groups, and everybody would have seen that, instead of none at all.
What the KC is doing at Crufts is definitely political.
How else can they demand judges to stop putting up poorly-bred dogs unless they are embarrassed in public?
is it just a coincidence they have the dogs right eye facing away from the camera ?
I noticed that, and the handler was spending a lot of time trying to keep the dog from turning its head, it appeared. It is all about “putting on the dog” so what do we really expect… drama and theatre.
The Mastiff owner was told by the examining vet that she did not need to see her own vet on the ectropion and secondary conjunctivitis which “failed” her bitch. Surely it is a nonsense and a publicity stunt to exclude dogs with so minor a problem. Would all the Best of Breed dogs outside of the selected “high profile” breeds have passed the same test if they had been subject to examination?
Is this British fair play in action?
I was told by friend who is a Clumber person that the loose skin on the face is needed to protect the dogs face when it hunts in brush, so therefore we needed to find a middle ground where some degree of ectropion is OK. I was also told that the dog needed the loose skin for scenting. This of course fails all the common sense tests because a loose eye will be far more likely to get injured and laden with debris than a nice tight eye. But this person is actually a pretty nice, sensible person who has rescued dogs and works in the human medical profession. This is the degree that these kind of fanciful stories about breed standards have become so entrenched that pretty much everyone has drank the KoolAid.
There is so much fantasy accepted as reality. Breed origins and excuses for wild deviations in form go hand-in-hand with fictional reasons that it all has to be that way for some very important purpose. But it all falls apart with even the most basic of facts. No dog needs wrinkles to channel the blood away from their eyes or to droopy cheeks and ears to collect scent pools, no dog needs a spinal and skin deformity to confer bravery against lions, no dog needs to be deaf to withstand the fire engine sirens while running under the carriage, etc. Not only do 99.9% of these dogs not even DO the activities that these features are supposedly required for, the dogs that actually did these things were never as extreme in form as the ones who trot around the show rings.
The Basset Hound BOB, today, has not allowed to go forward, but the Bloodhound BOB passed the vet check.
I once owned & tried to breed Neo’s before & at the very beginning of my TM days but I liked working Neo’s & after being horrified to find I could not buy a good Neo breed ban dogs. But it was hard to find even the right Neo bloodlines suitable for that here in Aus as they have such bad skin & immunity issues & hip & elbowe too so it was hard.
I know of a wonderful lady who breeds working Neo’s & ban dogs & she cops heaps over it yet she actually has what I would call real Neo’s.
http://abcalert.com/
Those are still VERY droopy!
Yep she would prefer them plainer to thats why she also breeds Ban Dogs but to get a plain dog that passes the other requirements can be very hard here in Aus. Neo’s are a relitively new breed here but compared with say http://www.iniziomastini.com/ you can see what I mean.
http://abcalert.com/page5.html
Theses are her dogs I prefer.
It is going to take time to breed dogs to these new standards. It will not happen overnight. By allowing people not involved in the breed to take over like this is very scary. It just gives the PETA people one more foothold to end dog ownership for all of us. It would be much better to try to work with the breed club to correct these issues. I think you are letting the fox guard the henhouse. When you can’t own a purebred dog anymore, remember how this all started. Then next there will be no dogs at all. That is their agenda, you know.
See you make the mistake of thinking that if you’re “in the breed” then you’re objective. That’s not true. It’s people IN THE BREED that did this to these dogs and if it takes a decade of none of these dogs winning a championship, so be it. Would you rather have more healthy dogs or more champions? The truth is that many breeders have chosen championships and ribbons over health when given that very choice.
And yes, it does give PeTA people a foothold, and who caused that? The breeders and judges and breed clubs and the KCs that built this system. It is their fault, they have absolutely bred monsters of dogs and now it’s time to pay for it. Your attitude is troubling, you think that the actual crime is ok, it’s just those who would point it out and try to rectify the situation that are doing harm because so many criminals have gotten away with it for so long. Stop spoiling the fun you say. Rubbish.
You’re advocating “don’t get caught” instead of “stop the madness.” That’s not a winning strategy, the game is up. Move on and fix the dogs.
When the day comes that I can’t own a purebred dog, it won’t be PeTA I’ll blame, it’ll be the people who earned their wrath. The PeTA people are crazy and evil, but really, how can you not say the same thing about the people who did this to so many breeds? You all suck, and if this is what it takes to wake you up and get some of you out of ruining dogs, so be it.
My dogs don’t have any of the problems you’ve molded your dogs into becoming but they’ll get regulated just the same. So it will be me, and my dogs, who will suffer innocently thanks to the callus ribbon chasers and the wackjobs who will push for legislation to solve this mess.
Like.
I raise and show bulldogs. I, however breed for good breathing and am currently trying to breed for natural breeding and birthing. I don’t want to have the huge heads and shoulders that require a c-section. Yes, i like the looks of those dogs but the reality is, I don’t want to risk my bitch when she goes into labor on a holiday with no emergancy vets within 2 hours drive. I have had that happen and lost half a litter because one of the pups was stuck in the bitch canal. So, I got a new stud that is smaller than my bitch with a smaller head, and who can actually breed naturally so I do not have to do AI this time. I HATE what the breed has come to. I love my dogs but all of mine are able to go out and play and act crazy and not drop over dead. I lost one dog to heat stroke 4 years ago and that was more than enough for me. Give me a fit and healthy bulldog any day over what most of the champions are like. Mine don’t sound like a freight train in the show ring. Of course, they aren’t winning yet either but I will continue to try until i find a judge with the same mindset and i have . We have got to change the breed for the dogs.
PDE is not PETA & I think PETE are idots of the highest order but it’s not us & PDE giveing AR’s activists a big stick it’s the breeders who choose to show extreme types with health issues that are arming AR’s nut jobs & it’s with far stronger ammo than a stick.
You people just don’t get it.
http://cynoanarchist.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/unintended-consequences-or-why-i-wont-just-shut-up/
Jess recently posted..Weird Ass Bitch Syndrome
The problem is not that the fox are let to guard the hen house. The problem is rather that the fox have been let to guard the hen house for far too long and now there are no hens left. Breed enthusiast have destroyed their own breeds for a long long time and know they are going to face the consequences.
I think it was better to let the vet kick out the BOB, and therefore eliminate the entire breed from the championship, than to do the checks at an earlier stage in the competition. It is a stronger wake-up call to breeders (and judges) and also sends a message to prospective non-expert purchasers of pedigree pups. As others have mentioned, I believe that doing this now means that we have a chance of _saving_ breeds that are on the brink of disaster.
I don’t think that PETA are a particularly prominent organisation in the UK. The RSPCA campaign against Crufts and against the breeding of unhealthy dogs has been far more influential. The RSPCA are not anti pet-ownership or opposed to dog breeding, nor are they are associated with the animal rights movement.