Sorry qualzucht apologists, that's ectropion, not chalk in those dogs' eyes. (Note: Simulated chalk, professional driver over a closed course, all similarity to dogs living or dead is purely educational).
The "Champion of 30 Countries" is still an ectropion mess, regardless of the owner's claims. (Note: this is the actual dog, with ectropion, clear as day)
The backlash against even the most basic of health demands on Best of Breed winners at Crufts began almost as soon as the independent Veterinarians found visible impediments to the dogs’ health which prompted the KC to withhold the BOB titles and prevent the affected dogs from advancing to Group and Best in Show. A Pekingese named Palacegarden Bianca, an English Bulldog named Mellowmood One In A Million, and most recently a Clumber Spaniel named Chervood Snowsun have failed these Vet exams and been barred from advancing further in the show.
The specific reasons for the first two dogs’ failure have not been made public, so rumors are rampant among the fancy as to what specific condition triggered the nuclear option. The most popular counter argument being made by those in the fancy is that one or both dogs were thrown out for the eye check and that the condition was not genetic, but rather an old injury that had healed or perhaps some inflammation due to chalk (which is actually a banned cosmetic) getting in the eye.
Chalk is both illegal and incapable of producing ectropion.
That’s right, this isn’t about health, it’s a wardrobe malfunction! In the case of the Clumber Spaniel, however, a clever photographer managed to snap a photo of the Vet’s diagnosis which documents that the Clumber was failed due to congenic ectropion of the eyes. The Vet also noted that the dog had both inflammation of the conjunctiva and an ear infection although this alone was not significant enough to be actionable against the title alone.
In a funny quirk of fate, the Clumber Spaniel actually has a great grandmother named “SalleBacks Smoke Gets In Your Eyes.” I guess it’s a lot easier to get smoke and chalk in your eyes when your eyelids hang down like a rapper’s baggy pants. And if anyone has poor vision, it’s the fancy breeders who support these dogs winning their ribbons over the clear dysfunction in the dogs.
The admin of the Facebook page “Team Jenny Forever” which sprung up to support the outsted Bulldog even claims that it was an unfair exam because the Vet used a flashlight to look in the dog’s eyes.
Apparently the fancy is afraid of a little light being shown on the issue of dog health. If the best they can claim is that actually looking at the dogs is unfair, they discredit the entire show system. Look how beautiful our dogs are, just don’t look too closely.
A facebook group called “The League Against Pedigree Breed Bashing!” is campaigning against the vet checks on the theory that Fancy Judges are more qualified to speak to dog health than a Veterinary Surgeon:
Veterinary Surgeons apparently have no business giving show dogs even a basic once-over.
It’s amusing to watch the fancy true believers act like jihadists inflamed by a Koran burning, even demanding that the Veterinarian be injured. Is there any better test of which side of history is the right one on this issue? On one side we have people who are demanding healthy dogs, on the other we have people demanding ribbons.
Ribbons or health? The answer is clear. The right side of history is to stand with healthy dogs, not ribbon chasing fad loving breeders and judges.
One such breeder posted the following image on Facebook in protest of these Vet checks. I find it immensely amusing that anyone could think that demanding the lowest possible level of health, a simple vet check, is somehow inappropriate and warranted, if only someone weren’t “ignorant” and “truly cared.” This is what the Koolaid drinkers really think: if you were only indoctrinated in this culture like they were, you’d agree that genetic defects, horrible structure, and piss-poor health and truncated longevity are acceptable casualties in the game for ribbons.
How twisted do you have to be to think that these vet checks are being pushed by the ignorant and heartless? It’s the exact opposite. Those of us who really DO care about these dogs as more than vehicles for ribbons, those of us who are not ignorant or intentionally denying the real harm that closed registries, inbreeding, and breeding for fads has caused dogs, we support health and any tools that can be used to bring it about.
We stand with the dogs, on the right side of ethics and history.
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The take-away from this post ought to be this:
Don’t mess with us. We have eyes and ears everywhere!
Retrieverman recently posted..Clumber also fails vet check!
Those judges are more qualified to talk about what determines a healthy specimen of a given breed in the same way that Kent Hovind is more qualified than CPA to discuss tax law.
Retrieverman recently posted..Clumber also fails vet check!
You know, when Zora was in heart failure last year, I immediately sought out the nearest Afghan hound judge. When Gaz had that problem with her brain and eventually developed lung cancer, I went straight to the closest IG judge for her. I really like my vet, he’s quite competent, but he’s no judge of purebreds!
But I had a problem with Kali’s broken leg and Cain’s heart failure. They’re cross-breeds, after all, Saluki X Afghan. Who would be better to tell me whether they are okay or not? An Afghan judge, or a Saluki judge? Luckily the Afghan judge who took care of our Zora also judges Salukis!
Jess recently posted..Yum! Velociraptor Eating a Pterosaur
I think they are all making fools of themselves!
How they can not see what all us so called uneducated know nothing public see is beyond me. I know they must became as blind & eye affected as some of the dogs around them in the show ring!!!
TIMES ARE A CHANGING!!!!
“The League Against Pedigree Breed Bashing!”
Dear god, don’t go there. The stupid will burn your eyes right out of your head. Mine are still watering.
Jess recently posted..Yum! Velociraptor Eating a Pterosaur
all my comments on the anti decision pages/blogs have been deleted, lol.
Is this like a slightly dumber version of the Legion of Doom?
Retrieverman recently posted..Clumber also fails vet check!
So would you take your ailing dog to a judge for medical advice?
LOL
That seems to be the implication!
Retrieverman recently posted..Clumber also fails vet check!
We have reached Poe’s Law territory.
We passed Poe’s law when they took out the anti-PDE2 facebook group.
Retrieverman recently posted..Clumber also fails vet check!
Well, you have posted a picture of a clumber, but NOT the one who won BOB at Crufts. You also make it seem like the Bulldog had ectropion. I wonder if any of your sheeple know that “Team Jenny” is for the Bulldog who has all her clearences. Instead of twisting things around tell the truth in a straightforward way.
Yeah, and the chalk is movie magic too. I have mad photoshop skillz. Of course it’s not the dog, if it were the dog, I’d have labeled it as such.
The issue here is that problems like ectropion are epidemic in the breed and someone is finally doing something about it.
Also, we don’t know what the bulldog had, I’m just posting what the rumors are and well before the confirm on the Clumber came out, before that dog even entered the ring, the apologists were claiming it was some “old injury” and “chalk in the eyes.” That’s not me. That’s them.
It was the owner/breeder/handler that came forward with the findings of the visual inspection…not our speculation 🙂
The owner/breeder of the Clumber Spaniel also says the dog has no ectropion, even when she’s standing right next to it and you can see it for yourself. It’s a nice story about this poor little puppy getting poked in the eye, but it really changes nothing. The dog has a fucked up eye and the vet found it. Are we supposed to allow all sorts of messed up dogs now because the owners can claim childhood injury? Missing testicle? Injury as a puppy. Poor dentition? Injury as a puppy. You’re admitting that this dog is not ideal and yet is being given the title as such.
BOB should not be given to gimpy eyed dogs.
Are you allowed to call an injury a genetic fault? Did anyone have missing testicles, poor dentition etc..I in NO WAY admitted that this dog was ideal..again, your words, not mine
I know that ‘Jenny’ has all her clearances. And if you truly believe that passing health tests mean a dog is healthy and functional, I have some swamp land you may be interested in.
I’d be interested to know, actually, what the Bulldog was really dismissed for. She didn’t look very exaggerated to me.
Sheeple, very funny! Keep’em coming.
Jess recently posted..Weird Ass Bitch Syndrome
Jenneh just had speck in her eye, and they took it away because the Kennel Club wants to ban purebred dogs!
Retrieverman recently posted..Clumber also fails vet check!
You can claim that she is unhealthy but any attempt to show she is, you try and deem unfit…you allow for the visual inspection of a vet to deem her unhealthy but a full inspection of other veterinarians is not valid?! Jenny passed her movement, breathing, skin and temperment and was dq’d for a small scar undetectable without light. The public hears unhealthy but does not hear that she passed the rest of her visual with no issue….too bad they dont hear both sides
Please provide documentation that “the full inspection of other veterinarians” included a statement that said “this dog does not have ectropion.”
My dogs have a vet certificate that says they have their Rabies shots up to date. Are you going to take this as sufficient evidence that they don’t have liver cancer or a brain tumor?
Also, where’s you evidence regarding what caused Jenny to fail? It looks like you’re just repeating rumors. Publish the vet report.
The public hears “Best of Breed” too bad they don’t hear that the dog can’t fly on an airplane because it’s prone to death due to overheating and apoxia, too bad they don’t hear about how the vast majority of these dogs can’t mate naturally or give birth without the help of a surgeon. They hear Best of Breed and thinks that it means something, so sad.
You might want to research what a health certificate is…it is not what you recieve from a vet after vaccinations…Certified hips are xrayed, HUU free is a blood test, certified eyes are done by a dog ocular specialist and so on….these dogs scores in each area and ther cert numbers can be found online if you take the time to look.
Actually, if you look on the Clumber’s web page, it just says ‘eyes’, ‘hips,’ etc. There are no numbers and no mention of the foundation or registry these tests are registered with. It is incumbent on the on the breeder to prove that this dog has been tested, with numbers and certificates.
Jess recently posted..Weird Ass Bitch Syndrome
The vets that do these “health” checks done by the breeder are the breeders own vets that are payed for by the breeder.
I would prefer to take an independant vets opinion thanks! But would be VERY interested in seeing the actual results & data on the breeders prev health checks on Jenny the Bulldog.
Tell me how did Jenny come to be be born, how was her mother mated & what was the whelping like? I would say the odds are high that vet assistance was needed from the get go hardley the reciepe for breeding healthy dogs in my eyes sorry.
It would probably be best that if you are referring to a dog, to actually use that dog’s picture…it may cause those that read this to draw conclusions based on this.
You’re right Trish, a photo of the dog was not available at the time this was published, so I’ve included one now. Thanks.
You may also want to scan the internet to find the second opinion obtained at an eye specialist which cleared her of any eye issues. If you suggest that veterinary opinion trumps ribbons, there is a good point for you.
I wonder how much they bribed the specialist?
These people are liars of the worst sort.
You can hire a vet to write anything.
Retrieverman recently posted..The paranoid rantings of the president of the Pekingese Club of America
I’m borrowing this pic….;-)
Jose recently posted..Old school breeders believe they are so righteous when they really just suck
Mastiff got scratched.
Not the Neapolitan. The one from England.
Retrieverman recently posted..Mastiff gets scratched
And yes, the mastiff of three flavors failed, too.
Retrieverman recently posted..Neapolitan mastiff fails Crufts health test!
LOL
Listen to what the owner said!
Retrieverman recently posted..Mastiff gets scratched
All I can say to those in the veterinary community who believe they best serve purebred dogs by putting dedicated and responsible breeders “out of business”, is that I look forward to the day when we can return the favour.
Do you really think denying some show dog a ribbon is putting anyone out of business? Please. Being a little melodramatic, aren’t you?
If there aren’t any real consequences to creating sick, diseased, short-lived, and over done dogs, then the excess of the fancy will continue. If this little wake-up call improves some breeds, and it certainly can’t hurt, I’m all for it. Breeders brought this on themselves and in truth, it’s a very small step. If you can’t stomach this, if this is too much, too soon, too far, to big, then I have no hope for you or your vision of dogs.
I too look forward to the day when “responsible breeders” breed dogs so healthy that they put vets out of business.
I too look forward to the day breeders realize the public & other breeders are holding them accountable for what they produce. Produce extreme type dogs that have poorly fitting eye sockets, bad hips, can’t regulate their temp, can’t breath easily, can’t even reproduce naturally in many cases & we will find out & we will tell the world & vets & registeries will FINALLY hold you accountable. thats the day & times I look forward to seeing.
It seems you have taken a few quotes and skewed them to your own agenda. I dont believe that the statement was that the dogs had chalk in thier eyes…I do believe that the intention was to point out that an injury to the eye can be caused by something as simple as chalk in the eye. It stands to reason that if you are looking for good you will find good, if you are looking for bad, you will find that, but if you look at both sides you might find truth!
You fail to note the several pages where these dogs health cert scores can be found and that these tests are more extensive than a visual. You also fail to mention what in fact these dogs did pass such as breathing, movement, skin and temperment….. you might want to present both sides.
I think the public, instead of hearing what was deemed supposedly unhealthy should see all of the information not just the findings of one. That information in turn should be used for the public to go forward and learn how to educate themselves in the right direction when buying or adopting a pup or dog.
Nobody is in favour of unhealthy dogs by far 🙂 I think the bigger issue here is that the public is now confused as to what should happen. Most may feel that ‘all’ of a certain breed is not healthy and that there are no breeders out there trying to protect and improve the longevity of the breed. For every 1 good breeder there are at least 10 that are working against the breed quality either being a backyard breeder, puppy farm or just plain not knowing any better.
That one good breeder may be having only one or two litters per year and those other 10 are flooding the market…that type of action will blacken the pool and make it hard to recover such an uphill climb. The public needs the education to know what to ask and how to weed out the 10 bad and find that 1 good 🙂
You do also point out that chalk is illgal in dogshows and does not cause ectropian…you are very correct on both cases, but obviously nobody is blind to the use of grooming aids in the grooming areas and there is alot of it in the air. Jenny was NOT faulted with ectropian. Please ensure you have the facts before posting that claim. Also please take the time to locate the health test numbers on the web that were posted FAR before any of this controversy and research the method in which the scores are obtained.
I would take the health cert of a dog that has been xrayed and blood tested over a visual any day…as we all know, it can look good, but its what’s under the hood that counts 😉
The KC tried to ban “grooming aids” last year and sadly caved to the stink thrown by the exhibitors. It’s amazing that you’re both supportive of grooming fraud, against the prohibition of sometimes caustic chemicals used on the dogs for the purposes of show, and now want to use that very corruption as an excuse why other dogs have inflamed eyes. Sad really. You’re really asking to not be held accountable for any of the abuses you carry out against these dogs.
Other health certs are great, but they only say what they say. A few limited tests only speak to what they are testing for. No more, no less.
Again, words in my mouth…I did not say I support grooming aids…
I guess in the end, even if these breeders did the best they could to prove overall health, this page would find reasons to the otherwise…reason stands…if you dont like these breeds, dont get one 🙂
I could tell you “If you don’t like my blog, don’t comment on it” but I think the irony would be lost on you, and that’s not my standard.
My problem with these dogs is three-fold:
(1) They are being harmed, plain and simple, by having a human’s need for ribbons placed above common sense, health, and well being.
(2) Such breeders have leveraged the terms “purebred” and the allure of dog shows to convince the lay public that because there are ribbons and purity involved, it’s not disease, it’s a breed feature! But the public is waking up.
(3) As an owner and breeder of dogs, idiocy like this is an attractive nuisance for Animal Rights wackjobs and politicians for stupid legislation that will rain on my parade and infringe my rights, punishing me along with the idiots who did this to their breeds.
I don’t want my dogs to suffer and I don’t want to suffer the consequences of these people’s bad behavior.
And most dont want to suffer to your one sided, skewed opinions 🙂
Why are his opinions “skewed” in your eyes?
Chris is 1 sided??????
Yet you all want cookie cutter dogs & breeders with identical goals!
uh yeah…. the big photo of the clumber with the runny eyes probably does have a problem but that WAS NOT the Breed winning bitch….. as usual, media is blinded by PeTA assholes!
Thanks for playing Alex. This blog and its author has been vehemently anti-Peta since its founding. Also, a Veterinary surgeon and, well, the clear as day images from the BOB dog video show that the dog has ectropion.
If you’d like to conflate anyone who cares an ounce about the health and welfare of dogs with PETA, congratulations on putting yourself out of the groups who cares about dogs.
actually if you look at previous crufts winners their eyes are runny and sore just like that picture above
The League Against Pedigree Breed Bashing might be the stupidest group of pseudo dog experts in history.
(Do you think they’ll read this?)
Retrieverman recently posted..The paranoid rantings of the president of the Pekingese Club of America
And what experience do you have!! Most of the members of that site have bred and shown dogs for 40 + years and know the their breeds inside out.
I would also like to know…. What writen consent did the author of this blob get to copy and paste peoples posts…. Who also talks a load of rubbish!! lol Which ever way you look at it… Everyone of those members are all for a healthy dog and improving the breeds… Lets not forget though. It is after all the Kennel Club that set these standards!! Great exageration on the Clumber photo too…. as they say “Ignorance is bliss” especially to the likes of those who are bashing the breeds. Tut tut!!
It’s a publicly viewable group, moron. You have no right to expect that your words won’t be used against you.
Jess recently posted..Weird Ass Bitch Syndrome
I don’t know why you paranoid fools didn’t make your group closed.
You don’t think we read your pages?
Retrieverman recently posted..And now for some anti-crossbreeder fatwas
It cann´t be good to breed dogs that are in and out.
Jokes a side. It does not matter how long you breed dogs if you also do not see that you get extreme unhealthy appearances
http://www.bulldogbreedcouncil.co.uk/ the bulldog breed council has come forward with the facts regarding the bulldog
LOL “Facts”
Retrieverman recently posted..Chat room
If they really wanted the facts known then the owner would make the vet’s conclusion public, with a scan of the official report.
Haven’t seen one for the bulldog yet, even though it would lay to rest any rumors about her.
Things that make you go hmmmmm.
Jess recently posted..Weird Ass Bitch Syndrome
i think ban these dogs aswell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuh-Y2J1fqc
Ban dogs? Where are you reading that anyone here wants to ban dogs? The point here is to not celebrate dogs that are bred despite serious known illness, even calling defect a breed feature, and placing show success above improving breeds for health.
I don’t see anyone suggesting that epilepsy is a breed feature in Border Collies and should be saved or promoted!
i still say ban all dogs , they are all freaks with things wrong with them , epilepsy is wild in that breed, , you breeders are all evil .
Hahaha, no. Is that what you honestly think people believe here?
Or are you an honest to fucking god AR activist? I’m not sure which is worse.
He is being a troll.
If you look at the Facebook group, people are flipping out over Christoper’s articles and took up the mentality of “how dare a Border Collie idiot criticize my breed! I am going to hate on his breed!”
When Christopher criticized Claire Wade’s intellectual dishonesty, the Toller-people were offended more about the fact he bred Border Collies than anything else. Katriina Maki was under fire for the same reason: “she doesn’t breed our dogs! Why is she saying bad things about them!”
So, it is highly probable this “dave” person is an idiotic person who got offended by the fact 6 breeds did not get their BOB titles hiding behind an alias.
sorry to upset you but i think all breeds of dogs be stopped from this show glory .
I know a troll when I see one.
The fact you are intentionally and deliberately setting yourself up to conform to a popular stereotype is the hallmark of someone trying to start a flame-wear.
Dave recently posted..Research Request: History of the Black Norwegians
you are one of hitlers breeders aswell. Jemima Harrison is doing a great job. i can not wait till they get all of you breeders
And yes im proud to fight for aminal rights . it thats a activist so be it.
*animal
Animals don’t have rights, silly boy. Also, I don’t know about all the other commentators, but I’ve never bred a single dog or other animal in my goddamn life.
My god dose anyone actually read what Chris & co are saying. I refuse to even answer the dip shit who thinks she is open minded but believes ONLY those that are members of such n such blah blah blah should breed dogs, LOL. Then i come to have a look see here on this particular post & see more comments from more fouls that can not see past their own noses. Sorry Chris but I think I’m done trying to be reasonable with theses posters as they are all bloody INSANE!!
you are allso insane breeding big panting dogs in a hot country ,how cruel is that, you should be forsed to sit in the sun in a big wooly jumper . evil breeders.
Where the hell did that come from?
He’s talking about me breeding TM’s in Australia, I think, LOL.
Dick head just because some idots breed huge coated dogs dose not mean I do, I belive a TM should have a course coat with fringe & mane only really on males. those fluffed up show dogs or the Asian ones are nothing like what I breed look at my avaiter thats hardly a big coated dog.
CIDN has not been seen here in Aus for well over a decade by the way. Thyroid & skin problems I have not had an issue with either. Entropian would be the breeds greatest genetic fault here in australia anyway, so get your facts right before you start dip shit.
Prone to hip dysplasia, thyroid problems, skin conditions and ear infections. Also a genetic problem called Canine Inherited Demyelinative Neuropathy (CIDN), which is fatal. The disorder will be evident in puppies between 7 and 10 weeks of age and the pup will pass away by age 4 months.
I find the whole chalk in the eyes thing to be really funny, since you aren’t supposed to be chalking your dogs anyways. One of those rules that no one follows, but should apply. And I love the name in that dog’s pedigree, haha. So appropriate!
Emma Green recently posted..Guest Post: Stylish Storage by Katie Straw
I am late in replying to all this. I am specifically addressing Trish, you point outthat the climber has passed its “eye tests” by the breeders vet. The test performed on her looks at the EYEBALLS and their sight function, NOT the eyelid conformation. That is the problem the show vets found and can clearly be seen in pictures of said dog.
Nice post , Thanks for shearing this . Make an appointment on the vet clinic to fulfill the veterinarian and employees members. In your go to to the ability, examine for cleanliness; a peaceable skilled setting and personnel who’re keen to reply the questions you may have and give you a quick tour. It’s best to try the wards designated for animal care and likewise the kennel areas. These areas have to be squeaky clear, dry, odor-free, snug and heat on a regular basis – completely no exceptions.