Questioning the decision to bring two live, infected, and contagious US citizens home for treatment of their Ebola is not simply fear mongering or hysteria: there is a perfectly rational risk-averse calculation that can be made without raising one’s blood pressure and calling down the end of the world.
In fact, a simple review of the documented risk of accidental infection by medical professionals and even highly secure government bio-hazard facilities should leave one with ample reason to remain skeptical of the decision to treat these people on American soil.
Hint: we’ve already had a professional virologist exposed to Ebola in a US Biosafety Level 4 laboratory, a Russian scientist has actually died from exposing herself to Ebola in a similar lab, a German scientist who stuck herself with an Ebola laced needle, and a researcher in the UK gave himself an Ebola/Marburg-like hemorrhagic fever while processing samples from African patients.
In 2004, a virologist at USAMRIID was working in a BSL-4 laboratory with mice that had been infected 2 days before with a mouse-adapted variant of the Zaire species of Ebola virus (ZEBOV) (2). The virulence and infectious dose of this variant of ZEBOV are unknown in humans; wild-type virus has a case-fatality rate of up to 90% (3).
The person had been following standard procedure, holding the mice while injecting them intraperitoneally with an immune globulin preparation. While the person was injecting the fifth mouse with a hypodermic syringe that had been used on previous mice, the animal kicked the syringe, causing the needle to pierce the person’s left-hand gloves, resulting in a small laceration. The virologist immediately squeezed the site to force the extravasation of blood. After decontamination of the blue suit in the chemical shower, the injured site was irrigated with 1 liter of sterile water and then scrubbed with povidone-iodine for 10 minutes.
In terms of exposure risk, the needle was presumed to be contaminated with virus-laden blood, although it was suspected that low levels of virus were present on the needle. The animals had not yet manifested signs of infection, and much contamination may have been removed mechanically when the needle pierced the gloves. The local decontamination of the site also reduced potential for infection.
USAMRIID medical, scientific, and executive staff concluded that the person with potential exposure warranted quarantine in the MCS. Contact plus airborne precautions (gown, gloves, N95 mask, eye protection) were used, with a plan to upgrade to BSL-4 precautions for signs or symptoms of illness. These extra precautions were instituted while the patient was asymptomatic for several reasons: 1) the timing of initial clinical manifestations with regard to potential for shedding virus were not known for this specific isolate in human infection; 2) there was interest in ensuring all infection control procedures were being followed appropriately in advance of clinical illness; and 3) there was interest in reducing any potential confounders, such as a caregiver transmitting a febrile respiratory infection to the patient, which might lead to unnecessary procedures or additional isolation. The person was monitored for routine vital signs; daily laboratory studies (coagulation studies, blood counts, chemistries, viral isolation, D-dimer) and regular physician assessments were performed.
Over the next several days, discussions were held with several internationally recognized filovirus experts regarding potential treatments or postexposure prophylaxis options. Local and state public health officials were also notified. The consensus opinion was that there was no safe, readily available source of immune plasma and little evidence existed to support its use. Emergency investigational new drug (IND) protocols were established for treatment with recombinant nematode protein (rNAPc2) and antisense oligomers, with the intention to consider implementation only if the patient demonstrated evidence of infection.
Ultimately, none of the 5 mice had confirmed viremia at the time of the incident. The patient did not become ill or seroconvert and was discharged after 21 days. The story received national and local media attention (4,5).
This case was ideal, a form of the virus that might not be infectious to humans, the virus had not been established in the mice at the time of the accident, and the exposure site was small. The details of the Russian accident mere months following the US accident are not as detailed but the result is decidedly worse:
A Russian scientist at a former Soviet biological weapons laboratory in Siberia has died after accidentally sticking herself with a needle laced with ebola, the deadly virus for which there is no vaccine or treatment, the lab’s parent Russian center announced over the weekend.
Scientists and officials said the accident had raised concerns about safety and secrecy at the State Research Center of Virology and Biotechnology, known as Vector, which in Soviet times specialized in turning deadly viruses into biological weapons. Vector has been a leading recipient of aid in an American program to help former Soviet scientists and labs convert to peaceful research.
Although the accident occurred May 5, Vector did not report it to the World Health Organization until last week. Scientists said that although Vector had isolated the scientist to contain any potential spread of the disease and there was no requirement that accidents involving ebola be reported, the delay meant that scientists at the health agency could not provide prompt advice on treatment that might have saved her life.
The earliest documented case of oopsy-poopsy Ebola infection comes from the UK in 1976:
In November 1976 an investigator at the Microbiological Research Establishment accidentally inoculated himself while processing material from patients in Africa who had been suffering from a haemorrhagic fever of unknown cause. He developed an illness closely resembling Marburg disease, and a virus was isolated from his blood that resembled Marburg virus but was distinct serologically. The course of the illness was mild and may have been modified by treatment with human interferon and convalescent serum. Convalescence was protracted; there was evidence of bone-marrow depression and virus was excreted in low titre for some weeks. Recovery was complete. Infection was contained by barrier-nursing techniques using a negative-pressure plastic isolator and infection did not spread to attendant staff or to the community.
And the most recent case comes from 2009:
A virologist working in the BSL-4 laboratory pricked herself in the finger during a mouse experiment on 12 March 2009. The syringe contained ZEBOV from culture supernatant that had been concentrated by ultracentrifugation and mixed 1:1 with incomplete Freund’s adjuvant for immunization of mice. The material was injected into the animal before the accident happened. When the laboratory worker tried to recap the needle, it penetrated the cap laterally and subsequently all 3 gloves. The puncture site on the skin was visible, but it did not bleed. The wound was disinfected after leaving the laboratory.
The virologist was not hospitalized for several days.
The patient voluntarily agreed on being hospitalized on 13 March. The responsible public health authorities, infectious disease specialists, and virologists considered the risk of virus transmission during the incubation period extremely low, as available epidemiological evidence indicates that Ebola virus is spread by ill or deceased patients through direct contact with infectious body fluids [1–3].
Ultimately the patient never developed symptoms of Ebola and it’s not documented that the accident lead to an actual sufficient exposure. But what’s greatly troubling is that the accident caught the BL-4 community with their pants down regarding what to do in such a case:
One may ask why the team in Hamburg chose this ad hoc procedure and not activated a defined operational plan to manage the patient. The Bernhard Nocht Institute followed a general operational plan for the management of accidental laboratory exposures, which included agreements with the Infectious Diseases Unit at the University Medical Center. Both virologists and clinicians in Hamburg had been aware of experimental treatment options as published in the literature.
However, like other BSL-4 facilities or infectious diseases units, which do not work on filovirus vaccines and therapeutics in NHPs or have contributed to field missions in filovirus outbreaks, they lacked the personal experience with this matter, the access to unpublished data, and the link to suppliers of investigational drugs and vaccines for making a choice among the different options. While a comprehensive set of general recommendations for the management of accidental laboratory exposures in BSL-3 and BSL-4 laboratories is available [32], there are no pathogen-specific recommendations for medical treatment of a case, especially for filoviruses. The BSL-4 laboratory community should consider establishing such recommendations.
Now we have a form of Ebola that is very human-infectious, in fact it’s infected more people this year than in any other year, ever. And we’re not dealing with the simple containment of mice, we’re dealing with the force and uncertainty of humans who might very well be dying. Namely, the challenges one faces in a traditional medical setting in addition to the much more routine and controlled environment in a laboratory (hint: medical professionals face even higher rates of accidental infection than lab workers).
Additionally we’re also very much facing a situation where Ebola will be handled more often by more researchers and other medical professionals on US soil than ever before. Ebola accidents are likely rare because the mere handling of Ebola is rare.
Other types of laboratory-acquired infections are not rare, especially for viruses and bacteria that are handled more often than Ebola.
Ebola Outbreaks 1976-2014
To my knowledge there isn’t some easily accessible database of accidents and accidental infections that’s available to the public, but when the US Government decided to expand and renovate their High Containment Facilities at USAMRIID (Fort Detrick, Maryland) to replace and augment the one built in 1969, they had to file an Environmental Impact Statement which was reviewed by the National Academy of Sciences. The information therein is troubling.
For one thing, the review found that USAMRIID’s application was dubious in it’s own assessment of risk. Basically the Government is bullshitting the public about the actual risks.
“The maximum credible event analysis (required by the EIS) involved simulation of biological aerosol releases from Biosafety Level (BSL)-3 and BSL-4 laboratories. In the scenarios, Coxiella burnetii (requiring BSL-3 containment) and Ebola Zaire virus (requiring BSL-4 containment) were released to the surrounding environment from an exhaust stack after vials in a centrifuge leaked and air filters failed to filter the pathogens. The EIS estimates that ground concentrations would be insignificant and would not pose a hazard to the nearby community.
However, the committee was unable to verify this prediction, because the modeling performed in support of the scenarios was not transparent, could not be reproduced, and was incomplete.
Specifically, the data and parameterizations used in in the computerized simulation scenarios were not provided in the EIS and the model software (Hazard Prediction and Assessment Capability model) is a closed-source system not available for independent review. The committee attempted to verify the calculations using common alternative models. The committee’s calculations indicated the potential for significantly higher doses of infectious agents following puff releases than was described in the EIS.
…
The EIS contained no documentation of an indivisual’s risk of infection under the prescribed conditions or any description of the effect of population density and population size on the number of cases expected for any of the pathogens of interest. Furthermore, the scenarios only considered exposures beyond the Fort Detrick fence line, with no consideration of exposure to USAMRIID workers or other people on the base.”
The review had access to USAMRIID’s records on laboratory-acquired infections, and that last bit (no consideration of USAMRIID worker infection) is damning because USAMRIID does not have a clean bill of health regarding laboratory-acquired infections.
In the 14 years between 1989 and 2002, USAMRIID had 234 exposure/illness incidents with 5 confirmed laboratory-acquired infections: Glanders (BL-3), Q fever (BL-3), Vaccinia (BL-2/3), Chikungunya (BL-3) and Venezuelan Equine Encephalitis (BL-3).
“Between 1943 and 1969, the Offensive Biological Warfare Research Program logged 452 diagnosed infections, for an average of 16 laboratory acquired infections per year.”
The rate of infections from the implicated diseases has dropped since due to vaccination of laboratory workers against Tularemia, Q fever, and Venezuelan Equine Encephalitis. None of these vaccines are given to the public on a routine basis.
Even more troubling, at least two USAMRIID employees in recent years were infected with deadly agents and did not notify USAMRIID or seek treatment from the specially provided clinics on base!
“Since 2000 (reported in 2010), there have been two known cases in which [exposed and infected] USAMRIID workers failed to seek medical attention at the SIP clinic and also appeared to have failed to disclose that they were USAMRIID employees to the off-base physicians from whom they sought medical care. These failures delayed prompt diagnosis and treatment, and have raised community concerns about the potential for secondary transmission (that is, infection of others through contact).”
And the situation just gets worse when we consider that all of the above are in laboratory environments, not treating infectious patients in a medical setting.
“Common risks to [laboratory] workers are needle or sharps-stick accidents, inadvertent aerosol generation that leads to inhalation or ocular/mucosal exposure, and contact with infected laboratory animals.”
Trying to put a number on the actual rates of laboratory-acquired infections is difficult because of no systematic reporting.
In a 2002–2004 survey of clinical laboratory directors who participate in ClinMicroNet, an online forum sponsored by the American Society of Microbiology, 33% of laboratories reported the occurrence of at least 1 laboratory-associated infection.
Even so, what data we do have is troubling.
An estimated 500,000 workers are employed in laboratories in the United States [1]. These workers are exposed to a variety of pathogenic microorganisms that may put them at risk of infection. However, the precise risk posed to individual laboratory workers after an exposure is difficult to determine, in part because of a lack of systematic reporting.
Current available data are limited to retrospective and voluntary postal surveys, anecdotal case reports, and reports about selected outbreaks with specific microorganisms.
Laboratory workers frequently become unwittingly infected through hitherto unexpected modes of transmission. This was illustrated by the first laboratory-acquired case of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) coronavirus, which occurred ∼4 months after the end of the SARS epidemic [2]. A 27-year-old microbiology graduate student in Singapore, who was working with a nonattenuated strain of West Nile virus, was evaluated for flulike symptoms. The patient denied any exposure to SARS and had no travel history. He was discharged from the emergency department but returned 5 days later because of persistent fever. Because Singapore remained in a heightened state of alert for SARS, a polymerase chain reaction assay was performed with a sputum specimen and returned a positive result for SARS coronavirus. Additional epidemiologic investigation revealed that the laboratory where he worked was also involved in research on SARS coronavirus and that one of the cell cultures of West Nile virus was contaminated with the same infecting strain of SARS coronavirus. Although this case represents an exceptional event, it serves to highlight the inherent risk posed to laboratory workers by virtue of their occupation.
There have even been notable outbreaks of viral hemorrhagic fevers, much like Ebola, due to exposures outside of clinical (BL-4) settings.
Viral agents transmitted through blood and bodily fluids cause most of the laboratory-acquired infections in diagnostic laboratories and among health care workers [1]. Although the viral hemorrhagic fevers incite the most fear and dominate the imagination of the media and public, the viruses responsible are rare causes of laboratory infection [3, 4]. However, there is always the possibility that an agent not previously seen may be encountered. This occurred in 1967, when 31 workers were infected while handling tissue specimens from African green monkeys, with 7 deaths resulting [38]. The causative agent was named Marburg virus, after the town in Germany where most cases occurred.
It should be obvious that Ebola infections in the laboratory are rare because working with Ebola is rare. But it’s going to become a lot less rare now that two fresh Ebola sources have entered the country and any number of people and organizations will likely get samples of the virus and come into contact with those samples that would not have done so otherwise.
But we aren’t just shipping in two vials of Ebola, two samples for laboratory use, we’re shipping in two living but infectious human beings into a heightened but no less problematic hospital setting.
Hospital situations offer many more risks. Just consider for a second the sheer volume of Ebola infected bodily fluids that are present in an entire human versus in a small petri dish. And consider how much harder it is to draw fluids or inject fluids into a live human versus transfer solutions between sealed vials or working with rats.
When we look at hospital-acquired infections the numbers get even worse.
“Of the common blood-associated viruses, hepatitis B virus (HBV) is the most common cause of laboratory-acquired infection [1]. The incidence of HBV infection among all health care workers in the United States is estimated to be 3.5–4.6 infections per 1000 workers, which is 2–4 times than the level for the general population [39].”
Consider that, like before, we don’t even know about all or even most of the hospital-acquired illnesses because there’s no central or mandated reporting, but even so we still have continuing evidence that professionals who know the risks and the precautions are still getting themselves infected.
During 2005–2006, there were 802 confirmed cases of acute hepatitis C reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, with 5 occupational exposures (1.5%) to blood [40]. However, there are few data on the incidence of hepatitis C among laboratory workers, and only single case reports in surveys have been performed in the United States and the United Kingdom [8-10].
And it’s not just more common diseases. Most doctors will never see a case of HIV, but a non-trivial number of professionals have acquired the disease in the course of their work, 75% in clinical settings and 25% in laboratory settings.
Data on occupational transmission of HIV from the period 1981–1992 revealed a total of 32 health care workers in the United States with occupationally acquired HIV infection; 25% of these health care workers were laboratory workers.
So accidents happen all the time and highly trained and experienced virologists working with huge budgets in cutting edge labs have already screwed up, infected themselves with Ebola, and died.
This is not a hypothetical.
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Anton
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Not sure why the title is “US Govt Sucks at Biocontainment”. Most of the article deals with human error, which is universal, and government intrusion designed to mitigate it is often expensive, annoying, and counterproductive. Some of the examples given are outside the US.
Google ‘tritium leak’. Surprise, the nuclear industry doesn’t handle dangerous materials very well either. And because tritium is a material that doesn’t get much attention, I’m sure there are lots of cases where it has escaped containment in civilian labs where it is used as a radioactive tracer without ever being noticed. (I know of one non-US plant physiology lab that didn’t find their tritium leak until months after it occurred, and the event got no press coverage, not even in the university paper).
Ebola is slightly more contagious than rabies would be if rabid animals weren’t prone to biting. I find it more surprising that – despite lack of access to information and sanitation systems and folk traditions that involve washing of the dead at home and distrust modern medicine – the numbers of people infected in the African epidemic are as low as they are. In a culture such as ours where people choosing to die at home seek hospice care, and handling the dead is left to morticians, Ebola doesn’t stand much of a chance of spreading. I’m more scared of chegas disease or Rocky mountain spotted fever.
The human error happens all over and in other countries and in labs and in hospitals, yes, and these errors are going to happen no matter what. The issue which you seemed to have missed is that at least two employees at USAMRIID, a government facility, were infected and WALKED OFF BASE and went to a non-government, non-informed doctor for treatment of biological hazards that were acquired on base! That is what the title is specifically referring to and the exact behavior that is dangerous as all heck in regards to outbreaks.
It’s not very likely that any of the sharps accidents that were quarantined ON BASE or IN LAB as it appears some or most of the cases were would result in more than that one person becoming infected. But having two infected people break all containment and ACTIVELY AVOID the doctors they should have been doing to for treatment (likely because the policies and training and procedures sucked a big fat government turd and these people weren’t just stupid but actively trying to avoid repercussions by keeping their infected status unknown to their bosses), is a huge issue.
And frankly, these two were only found out because these people WERE INFECTED. How many accidents went unreported and were never discovered widely and were never published to the public due to a review?
Chris Thank you for pointing out the extreme importance of these two cases to all reader of employees which could prove to be the spread of Ebola in the United States? . ” (likely because the policies and training and procedures sucked a big fat government turd and these people weren’t just stupid but actively trying to avoid repercussions by keeping their infected status unknown to their bosses), is a huge issue.”Read more: http://www.border-wars.com/2014/08/the-us-govt-sucks-at-bio-containment.html#ixzz39eBCByb5
It seems current leadership sets a poor example with only pen and telephone. . Just as one realizes it takes a Good Leadership to set the Standard of Excellence by actions not words. Case and Point: President Obama did not visit overcrowded detention facilities with Illegal Immigrant Children In Detention Facilities on his Texas Trip. Is he giving lip service to his so called humanitarian disguise?
”
HHS has said, that the CDC has now activated its Emergency Operations Center to Level III, which means it is on 24-hour alert to better coordinate and track their programs in support of what HHS is calling “the urgent humanitarian situation of unaccompanied children along the southwest border.” But calling it a crisis and working to contain quite different things. It is clear that the CDC needs to be more involved immediately to help identify, treat, and contain emerging diseases.”
” Putting a shield of secrecy around the health concerns of 50,000 children helps neither those who are sick nor those who are placed at risk.”
Diseases that are epidemic to other countries are not always the same ones that we face in the United States, but with Ebola Virus this certainly is not true. This is not political, or racist please, , and it is the reason immigrants and travelers who enter this country legally historically faced rigorous screenings in advance of entry for sexually transmitted diseases, active tuberculosis, new strains of influenza, leprosy, cholera, and plague, or at least use to…
The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention require that all legal immigrants receive a medical exam. Proof of vaccination is also mandatory for measles, mumps, rubella, polio, tetanus, diphtheria, pertussis, haemophilus strains, hepatitis A and B, rotavirus, meningococcus, chicken pox, pneumonia, and seasonal flu.
However, it is suggested when Americans visit Mexico or other South American Countries should have vaccination for Yellow Fever, and Hepatitis A , for example
None of these rigorous screenings can be done in advance of entry on people who enter this or any country illegally and undetected. And once people are detained, the screenings they receive hardly can be as rigorous or effective at controlling the spread of disease. This is the reason that we have a potential public health crisis along our southern border and now at least at International Airports. Certainly, the employees as you point the attention should be more intense of those working with the ebola virus.
We see anti-immigrant protesters hold signs asking Washington to “Save our children from diseases,” while right-wing lawmakers discontent, and annoyed t about disease screening and spread fears of infection and contamination. It is a historical reenactment to some degree of history of ugly nativism and prejudice dressed as concern for public health. And you don’t have to be a liberal, or support immigration reform, to see this. Again Chris thank you for bringing an Critical Topic for discussion on your blog site.
Hi Jen Robinson,
Ebola doesn’t seem to be highly contagious, but neither is AIDS. We don’t want another AIDS type virus here, or anywhere else, do we?
Instead of comparing ebola to rabies, lets compare it to AIDS.
Ebola has infected doctors who treat ebola patients. Ebola doctors, who special in treating ebola patients, who go into the hospital room knowing that the patient has ebola, have died of catching ebola. The doctor and nurse in Atlanta now wore medical hazemat suits to treat ebola patients, and they still got ebola.
Doctors and nurses can safely treat AIDS patients without hazmat suits – which didn’t even protect doctors and nurses from catching ebola.
People can catch ebola from touching the dead body of an ebola patient – not true of AIDS or there would have been an epidemic of dead morticians when AIDS came to America.
Ebola can be spread from the sweat of an ebola patient such as shaking hands with an infected person. (Please, Google Company start using the fist bump instead of shaking hands or give up shaking hands totally because i use Google every day.)
You don’t get AIDS from shaking hands because it is spread from infected blood and semen – or sex with an infected person. All our business people didn’t catch AIDS so we know that it doesn’t spread this way. Ebola spreads from blood, semen, and SWEAT!
Animals don’t get AIDs. People, primates, and pigs have died of ebola. Dogs and fruit bats have antibodies in their blood that show that they have caught and survived the ebola virus.
Apparently some rodents, like mice, also get ebola. The current ebola treatment was made from antibodies in mice blood. If it was made from antibodies in dog blood, who knows if that would have worked or if people in Africa, for religious reasons, would have died rather than accept dog blood products.
We know how AIDS is spread. Not so sure about ebola. It seems that you can get ebola from casual contact. We know simply touching or washing an infected person will infect you. The virus is all over the infected person, in sweat, blood, semen, and in the organs. In one lab, primates in one part of the lab, were infected from having infected piglets in the same room with them – which implies an airborne spread of the disease.
AIDS is not airborne, if it were, San Francisco would have become a ghost town after AIDS came here, it did’t, so AIDS is not airborne. We aren’t sure about ebola.
We finally have pills that suppress the AIDS virus in people who catch the disease. There is no cure for ebola yet, you live or you don’t, except that 2 people have been treated with a new experimental drug. They are both alive but in the hospital.
And it isn’t exactly a drug. Decades ago, my vet said of distemper in dogs, that vaccines would protect a puppy, but if an unvaccinated dog caught distemper it might live or it might die. He said he was currently trying to treat a breeder’s infected dogs and some lived, and some didn’t. Now more dogs had caught the distemper. I asked him why not transfuse the sick dogs with some blood from the survivors? He looked at me like i was nuts, but later, he said he tried it and it worked.
I expected this to become a routine treatment for every disease, it did not. One problem is that this sort of treatment could spread other diseases. Say Max has survived ebola, so when Ginger gets ebola you transfer blood from Max to Ginger. Ginger gets better. Both are fine. Then you find out that Max was coming down with AIDS at the time he donated blood, now he has AIDS and Ginger will get AIDS too.
Ginger is happy to be alive, but on a broader level, this could spread many other previously rare diseases. Blood from primates could easily have Simian Viruses. Nasty simian viruses. So this sort of cure has to be controlled. Scary thing about control is the point of Chris’s post – human error.
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Paddyannie: I don’t know why you switched to AIDS when I mentioned rabies, and then went off making much of the fact that other mammals can get ebola. All mammals can get rabies (which is why I used the rabies analogy). AIDS has a ‘special’ transmission history due to some oddities of H. sapiens (eg., we enjoy sex and are some of us are extremely promiscuous, plus some subset is fond of shooting up and doesn’t do enough to make sure they use clean needles. Most animals confine sex to times when the female is in season). The AIDS virus also has the great advantage (from the virus’ perspective) that people can be infected and contagious for years without knowing about it . . . NOT so with Ebola.
Whether or not a serum treatment is a drug or not is a sterile semantic debate. It is likely to be a useful first step toward an effective treatment, or a vaccine.
I heartily recommend reading Hans Zinsner’s (1935) classic, Rats, Lice and History. Epidemiology and infectious disease ARE ongoing concerns, particularly given the velocity and distances of travel and goods transport. The places most of us aren’t looking (could parvo virus or some other infectious disease jump from dogs to humans? might some blight strike a major food crop? is the feared SARS pandemic eventually going to take off? . .. etc.) are much more dangerous than the Ebola scare — which seems to attract popular imagination in much the same way as do zombies and vampires.
About ebola, i only know what i read. I just read that the doctor, who is in Atlanta now, not only got the new experimental drug, but also a unit of blood from one of his own patients, a 14 year old boy who survived the ebola virus.
So, as i wrote above, assuming this blood was fresh, not stored for 6 months to make sure the boy wasn’t harboring other diseases, the doctor is not out of the woods yet. Though the article called the 14 year old a boy, in his own country he might legally be called a man.
The US has used the 18 year standard for a long time. Bad idea. Without young people out of school working, we import young workers from poorer countries to mow lawns, clean pools, pick crops, babysit etc.
The problem is that these foreign teenagers no longer go home after a few years, and so they mature here and compete for jobs against resident populations just getting out of high school. Now they compete for most jobs held by adult residents as well. This leads to high unemployment of citizens who were born here, and have no other country to go to.
If we accepted that 15 year olds are young adults (or 13 or 14 year olds) then we would have more of what we need, teenager who live at home, but who work cheaper, but who can get better jobs after a few years of experience.
And most people don’t need to go to college, they would be fine with on the job training. Most blue collar workers never use any of the useless stuff they were forced to memorize in high school. Those years would be better spent learning a trade.
In many Latin American countries, school only goes until 6th grade. Our teachers, teach us to laugh about that, to value what they teach us, to hold higher education in esteem and teach that everybody should stay in school as long as they can.
But it doesn’t work out to be good for the country, and it raises the bar for everyone. The oldest men were proud they learned to read and write, the next generation was proud they went though 6 grades, the next generation after that were proud they graduated the 8th grade, then you needed a high school diploma, then kids were expected to have at least a bachelor’s degree, now i watched on TV as one character insults another for only having a master’s degree, not a doctorate.
But still most kids only need a school to learn to read & write and use a computer – after that they could learn from each other or from on the job training. But because of high the bar has been reset, they need a degree to get the job which will never require them to use the things they wasted years sitting in school learning.
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Huh? What prompted the diatribe about young immigrants from Latin America.
You say “I only know what I read”.
I suggest that you do some more reading.
I don’t mean to be insulting. But treatment with blood from a survivor is classic serum treatment, and pretty basic in the routines for treating a serious, exotic disease.
Hi Jen: Just as Christopher’s second blog states the government is doing a bad job containing and protecting the health of American legal citizens of infectious diseases. The media likewise seemingly are likewise supporting the efforts to keep Americans unaware of the critical danger of this failure and incompetence. .
Many believe the poor media coverage to American public regardless of the number of growing dangers of varies disease epidemics currently allowed to just walk over the Border to infect American children for example. It is not just the Travelers but illegal immigrants not so young Latin Americans, and apparently not just Latin Americans.
There are various reports on the internet regarding the Ebola broken containment over six months ago. Yes, I agree everything on the internet must be carefully researched. Ebola virus will cause panic and fear of an epidemic world wide is a reality. Now who owes this SURPRISE WONDER CURE?
because like the Ebola virus because there are numerous reports that the Ebola virus is coming through the Southern Border with individuals not from Latin America. We know Latin Americans are arriving with polio, scabies, TB
Hi Jen Robinson,
I used AIDS as an example because it is the most recent plague and so more people understand about how it arrived and spread, and the idea of dealing, on a weekly basis, with having to protect yourself from a disease by changing your own behaviors.
Rabies was a great plague, and still is in some countries. But we have dealt with it here through vaccines. Like AIDS, there is no vaccine for ebola, if it travels here, it could effect our daily lives.
It is guessed that a person can completely recover from ebola and not be a carrier, but that was thought to be true of many other diseases only to find that they can flare up again in the semen years later, polio being on example. Not a huge problem in a country where most people are already vaccinated against polio. But ebola has no vaccine yet.
We have simple cures for syphilis and gonorrhea but they are still health concerns. We don’t need another sexually transmitted disease.
You can’t even get infected people with a deadly disease to stay off of airplane flights, how our you going to get survivors, who feel better after ebola, to not have sex for 2 months afterward, and to wash their hands every time they touch themselves?
Paddyannie recently posted..The Sprinthunds
Hi Jen Robinson,
That post should have been a reply to Kathy on the previous post, but who reads the older posts, once there is a newer one?
I have nothing against immigrants, and yes, feel free to send me back to the Countries my grandparents/ great grandparents came from – how soon may i expect the free plane tickets?
But, right now, there is an issue of infected immigrants. I was pointing out how our own schooling system creates a gap which almost requires that we import people to fill the roles and jobs which normally would be the niche of teenagers, but we trap our teenagers in school, when they could be beginning to ease into adult life.
And everybody eventually gets tired of entry-level jobs. America loves upward mobility through one’s life, but our surplus of workers tips the balance, ruining the need of promotions from entry level upwards, which was once the norm – working up from the mailroom instead of sitting those years out in a school.
No insults were from me. If you read any of it as an insult to anyone, the chip was on your own shoulder.
Paddyannie recently posted..The Sprinthunds
Ebola virus like flu virus to my understanding are smart they continue to mutate making a vaccine difficult to produce immunization. Agree with Christopher human error has always been part of the development of vaccine. Examples of history…monkey blood used for earlier Polio vaccine. Mistake with Parvo in lab giving canines a disease with vaccination for a cat disease. If one was around when this error was made in a lab you would have experienced hundreds and thousands of canines die.
Hi Kathy,
Yes, ebola has yet to be understood, nobody really knows much about it. And you can’t compare this outbreaks to some others because the name “ebola” is being used for a group of different viruses. None of which, we know much about. And it seems that there are different strains even within one species of ebola, so a person could get the pit bull version or the pug version (i mean the strong version or the mutated weaker version).
Hi Jen Robinson,
Immigration is currently tied with ebola fears. Fears that people might flee from infected families and towns in Africa, into Mexico, and then slip across the border using the same routes and coyotes that Latin Americans use. Or just fly here.
Paddyannie recently posted..The Sprinthunds
I want to clarify what i said. If people in your neighborhood started getting ebola, you would probably want to move elsewhere for awhile, right? Go visit your ex? Move back with that roomate that stoled your lover? Take up the local religious group’s offer to volunteer at a soup kitchen in a poor, but uninfected nation? Just run away?
Other people feel the same way too, when a plague hits their area, they want to flee.
But, whether it is you, your friends, strangers, or people from another country, the people who are fleeing a plague might already be incubating the disease inside of them. That is how disease hops from one country to another.
If you are a doctor, and you start finding that nurses you know have died of ebola, that doctors in nearby towns have died of ebola, you might start dreaming of a long vacation, a vacation to an unifected country. If you have your passport, you might apply for a tourist visa to an unifected country. Hopefully you get there before you are exposed.
But what if you are not so rich? What if you can’t get a tourist visa? Then people start to flee on bicycle and on foot. They hitchhike, they pay regular people to drive them, they steal cars, they just want to flee away from disease – nobody wants to get ebola.
But what if you can’t get a tourist visa for the US? People flee to Mexico, but they can’t legally work in Mexico either, if they are in Mexico illegally or on a tourist visa. And Mexico has harsher penalties for illegal workers and for people who hire them. (You can’t go to Mexico for the winter and work while you are there.)
So, people from many countries come through Mexico to the US. Many are poor but not sick. But some are sick. And some might be fleeing a plague.
Paddyannie recently posted..The Sprinthunds
You bet Paddfyannie seems one man collapse in airport. The two people who helped him into a wheelchair both came down with the Ebola and died. This does not follow the pattern of must be transferred through blood or body fluids does it?
Hi Jen Robinson,
I said “about ebola” i only know what i read. Which, unless you are on the ebola front lines, (if so, please stay there), is true of everyone.
I read back, and think where the confusion was, is where i repeated where the 14 year old was called a “boy”. While 65 year old European Americans will still refer to themselves as a “boy” or a “girl”, African Americans are touchy about that usage, wanting to be called a “man” or a “woman”.
It dawned on me that, in his own country, a 14 year old might be considered a man not a boy.
This is true in parts of Latin America too. At puberty, you are considered an adult. A young adult, but an adult. I remember the laughter when i mentioned about Americans dating in school. For them school is for children. Adults don’t go to school. They graduate from 6th grade at about 11 years old. The idea of people dating in school just could not be translated correctly. They laughed too loud to try to understand.
I saw a photo of a young mother and her three very young children crossing the border illegally, they were called “unaccompanied children”. It took me a moment to see it from the media’s point of view: the mother was 17 and so was an unaccompanied child herself. So her 3 children were also unaccompanied children because their mother wasn’t an adult.
But, in their own country, these teenagers are as much considered an adult as a 22 year old would be here – both by the law and by his own judgement.
For example, say an 11 year old graduates the 6th grade, gets a job mowing lawns, washing dishes etc. When he is 13, he gets a construction job, when he is 14 he marries a woman about his own age who already has one baby and is expected his baby. At 15, he is a married, working father, living and paying rent in town, handling his own finances, working on his own car, etc. He is an adult to himself, his wife, his baby, his step child, his parents, religion, and government. At 16, he and his family come to the US, and we call him, his wife, and their 2 kids all “children”.
Paddyannie recently posted..The Sprinthunds
Then i went on to comment that the other counties are more correct, these are young adults, not old children.
Children have not reached puberty. They believe in magic. They don’t have adult hormones.
Teenagers should be considered to be young adults, not old children. That is true in their country and ours. WE are wrong to call them children. As i pointed out earlier, it hurts to make teenagers waste time in school (i hated it. I recall the line from Hocus Pocus, where the witches come 200 years forward in time to our era. Upon going into a school one witch says “its a prison for children”).
Even with my parent’s permission, it would have been illegal for me to quit school. I had to endure 6 years of my young adult life sit-staying in a wooden chair listening to somebody drone on about nouns and verbs and who discovered America in what year.
And it deletes the natural role of teenagers in our culture. They miss that time of earning money, managing their own time, but still being helped by family.
Not having teenagers in the young adult role, we import all of our unskilled labor. But that is a problem too, because these people can’t stay in a teenage role forever, so they advance to regular work, so we import more people to mow yards, babysit etc. and so we see the immigrants become our competitors, not our helpers.
Instead of complaining about the immigrants not staying in the younger role, we need to have gap years where people graduate from grade school, but aren’t ready for college, and who get experience earning money.
Does that explain it better Jen?
Paddyannie recently posted..The Sprinthunds
It is my understanding there is a test for Ebola for those coming into the United States? While a test apparently does exist, it would have to be given three days in a row to be sure. How many people do you think would be willing to be quarantined for three days in order to enter the country? Is this why the President has not made this Executive Order or is waiting until the conference is over?
Hi Kathy, maybe the President and Congress will do something useful about immigration from infected countries, then again, maybe they will never get a good plan and agree on it.
ICE can’t make its own rules. They just follow the plan and rulebooks which they are given. That’s their job.
I haven’t read about a test which would show if a person, for example, stabbed themself with an infected needle the day before getting scared and quitting, and booking a flight back to the US. Last I read, one has to wait 21 days after leaving Africa before they can know if they are 100% sure not infected.
Paddyannie recently posted..The Sprinthunds
Point is it was in America already a long long time ago, not too much wailing about how it was brought in for research. Why now?
I expect these two offer a vital human trial possibility, in fact they are already being trialed with shots as I write.
If it brings less hysterical racism think of them as two mice or lesser primates than ourselves.
Human trials are a very very contentious and mostly completely off limits. Not by accident that many researchers even some of the most famous in history of medicine have “ooopsy infected” themselves willingly.
These two are a “god send” it could be argued instead of hysteria one should be extremely grateful. Make no mistake Ebola will be a priority in nations interested in biological warfare. I cant rule the USA out either.
Yes “ooopsie infections” have happened and will continue to happen most likely, play with fire and all that. All or nothing then? Why scream now hiding the children and measuring their underwear size? Ha ha ha I still don’t get that one. The Bunters go into das bomb shelter?
What do you mean “it was in America already a long long time ago”? And why would that matter, if true? There weren’t 300 million people in America a “long long time ago” nor was I living here then. And that’s what I care about.
Oh yes I’m very sure you were living there at the time and still living there not so?
When I mean for years, a long time ago I mean its been researched for that long on America soil in labs under your nose. They were meant to be quite close to a vaccine already that must have taken at least two decades of research alone. No the research hasn’t been taking place in the Congo or any where else last I looked they weren’t very hospitable places to be doing high level research into deadly viruses. I doubt the facilities exist anyway.
Why no hysteria about that? I would be be more worried about research labs in America as they already exist.
I of course didn’t mean hundreds of years ago but you never quite know of course. A lot of slaves from Africa found themselves in America and died in transport under horrific conditions I doubt there were many autopsies done.
Ebola is not as threatening as its made out to be, HIV is in fact more of a real problem as are a host of other far more virulent and easily spread things even than HIV.
These outbreaks of Ebola kill hundreds not thousands simply because people die very quickly and outbreaks are thus self isolating or in worse case scenarios can be easily isolated. Lets face it its pretty hard to get your body fluids out there when you are dying its that quick. Only takes a few weeks to die or if you survive those two-three weeks you are no longer contagious.
It doesn’t even spread by droplets in the air these patients aren’t even a risk to you if you sat next to them on a long distance flight of 18-hours. Unless of course you lean over and ask them politely to spit into any wound you might have. I bet they were in an isolation tent the whole flight anyway.
Come on. Surely the negligible and infinitely manageable risks more than outweigh the gains any research is going to have of bringing two American citizens back home? Completely aside they are also going to get better treatment of course even as two guinea pigs. Im sure their family and friends are happy anyway even if some are not.
Touch wood you wont get any Ebola outbreaks near you soon.
Anton: You are another …” That Won’t Happen”
Yes, people are concerned even big New Yorkers who have faced and gone on after 9-11. Why would anyone with awareness not be concerned in New York. They have an International airport with Foreign Visitors crowding their streets, hotels and eating establishments. Are you not aware the meeting place of the United Nations? This is not hysteria it is good old American Common Sense. Oh forgot you among the generation of educated …THAT WON’T HAPPEN. Get Real.
http://thoughtcatalog.com/james-b-barnes/2014/08/13-facts-about-the-deadly-ebola-virus-that-you-didnt-know/
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/science/link-to-african-ebola-found-in-bats-suggests-virus-is-more-widespread.html
Ebola was at first thought to be a gorilla virus, because human outbreaks began after people ate the bodies of dead gorillas. But scientists believe that bats are the natural reservoir and that primates may get infected by eating fruit that bats have drooled or defecated on. ”
Just as a person can get cholera by drinking water or eating food contaminated with the cholera bacterium. In an epidemic, the source of the contamination is usually the feces of an infected person that contaminates water and/or food. The disease can spread rapidly in areas with inadequate treatment of sewage and drinking water. The disease is not likely to spread directly from one person to another; therefore, casual contact with an infected person is not a risk for becoming ill.
Rodents can spread another disease and even campers in National Forest have laid their bed rolls and tents on grounds contaminated by rodents.
Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome; Hemorrhagic fever with renal syndrome
The hantaviruses that cause HPS in the United States are not known to be transmitted by any types of animals other than certain species of rodents. Dogs and cats are not known to carry hantavirus; however, they may bring infected rodents into contact with people if they catch such animals and carry them home. Guinea pigs, hamsters, gerbils, and rodents from pet stores are not known to carry hantavirus.
In the United States, deer mice (along with cotton rats and rice rats in the southeastern states and the white-footed mouse in the Northeast) are the reservoir of the virus. The rodents shed the virus in their urine, droppings, and saliva. The virus is mainly transmitted to people when they breathe in air contaminated with the virus.
When fresh rodent urine, droppings, or nesting materials are stirred up, tiny droplets containing the virus get into the air. This process is known as “airborne transmission”.
There are several other ways rodents may spread hantavirus to people:
•If a rodent with the virus bites someone, the virus may be spread to that person, but this type of transmission is rare.
http://thoughtcatalog.com/james-b-barnes/2014/08/13-facts-about-the-deadly-ebola-virus-that-you-didnt-know/
Hi Anton: I suggest you hear it from Huffington Post. Hysteria well it is not just us Americans wanting closing Borders to save lives. I hardly call this hysteria.
..http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/31/ebola-pictures_n_5638490.html?utm_hp_ref=uk&ir=UK
You see they needed underwear for these children here in the United States. The first realization these were not just children when cotton new underwear for males were requested sizes medium to 6XL. Hope this clears up the underwear question. We consider children not teenagers and folks in their twenties. I do not know of hundreds of children here or anywhere that wear XL underwear and neither does anyone else.
You see the legal process usually takes and for those who await is two years. They need a sponsor to become a legal immigrant of the United States. It is good system our new friends from Uganda, who have become citizens of this country would testify to that fact. Unfortunately, our current President does not respect this system.
You called me a racist because you do not appreciate my opinion of current situation. You do not even know what race I am. Racist is being used as a defense for what is no longer politically correct. Find a different excuse.
Hmm and the Huffington Post is somehow the last word. I seem to remember last them stuffing up the facts of mutts being healthier than pedigree dogs.
I never think being politically incorrect is an excuse for anything it’s more often than not the opt out clause for true bigots and etc.
Think you’re living in the 90’s if you think being politically incorrect is your only excuse. It was vaguely interesting to be politically incorrect when it meant making light of PC taken to extremes, it was also fair target for humour but then it became a true symbol of mostly white jobs who couldn’t understand the humour.
If you were black or Mexican you might be suffering from self loathing?
Kathy and Anton, please look carefully at the article in the Huff. It does not take a stand, it merely offers photos of the conditions and situations that Doctors Without Borders and other charitable organizations face when trying to help contain the Ebola outbreak in Africa. When I view these photos my response is to want to give generous donations to Doctors Without Borders, and support bringing material/people useful for research (including the the two Ebola patients at the center of this controversy) to laboratory settings in the developed world to facilitate research toward development of vaccines and/or cures.
Chris is correct in saying the labs are not perfectly controlled and there are slip ups. But compared to the scenes in these photos, they are models of control. I know there has been one lab study that showed that pigs can snort aerosols that transfer Ebola to monkeys. The scary reports based on this study seem to leave out the caveats saying that pigs are unusual in their ability to aerosolize virus. N of the field evidence shows transmission other than transmission through contact with bodily fluids, and if such transmission were possible/common between humans, there would be hundreds of thousands of people infected.
I know some of you get thrills out of nightmares of zombie hoards and peril at the border. These are fantasies . . . try reading up a little on epidemiology . . .you’ll quickly find that horrific as the disease Ebola is, it is a very weak epidemic in terms of ability to propagate, and there is very little danger to us in the developed world. Malaria is a MUCH MUCH MUCH harder disease to control . . . and malaria remains rare, even in states like Florida, where there is a lot of mixing with Latin America and a climate and landscape very favorable for propagation of the disease.
Hi Jen Robinson:
“. try reading up a little on epidemiology . . .you’ll quickly find that horrific as the disease Ebola is, it is a very weak epidemic in terms of ability to propagate, and there is very little danger to us in the developed world. Malaria is a MUCH MUCH MUCH harder disease to control . . . and ”
Read more: http://www.border-wars.com/2014/08/the-us-govt-sucks-at-bio-containment.html#ixzz39id7xtvp
We are all learning to have some independent discussions beyond what the media choses to put in daily news. The purpose of this Blog in my opinion. The question of why this disease regardless of contamination controls practiced continues to explode and wane only to explode again to greater degree each time is the key in my opinion through continuing to read link previously provided. Many do not realize how much money China has put into this once undeveloped part of Africa. We know about the destruction of Rainforest, but here it is the additional environmental and human issues that must be a high priority in my opinion.
http://www.bu.edu/today/2014/battling-ebola-is-human-activity-to-blame/
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/8/4/ebola-deforestationclimatechange.html
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/07/we-are-making-ebola-worse
http://www.vox.com/2014/7/31/5956885/ebola-outbreak-virus-deforestation
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/31/ebola-outbreak-causes_n_5638503.html
http://thebulletin.org/how-prevent-next-ebola-outbreak7312
I understand your point of view. The nightmares of Zombies can be a reality for those who are living or working in areas of high drug users. If you take the time it is not about those who like Vampire, Werewolves, and Zombie movies and games but facing an individual who wants to eat your face off, or eat your dog for example. The worse I have seen are the beautiful young people with black circles, thin and pale, have not cleaned their face, teeth , hair or body wearing clothes they must have been wearing for at least a month. Looking or attempting to steal, assault or maybe even kill for their next fix, as reality of Zombies. Can you help them, No. Can you get them into Drug Rehab and help them change their lives NO. They just clean up for awhile and go right back to drug abuse.
I apologize for making lite of the culture menu differences of the culture of these people, but we know we are what we put into our bodies.
Hi Paddyannie: Our new American friends from Uganda revealed this link to me Now Ed said….Yes ran from the Ebola virus. http://www.who.int/csr/don/archive/disease/ebola/en/
Please explain what is significant about this link. It seems to be a sort of WHO hub providing links to other reports, but reporting no information itself.
Jen the link reveals to those who are not aware or kept up with every case and when in Western Africa. You see Who, What, Where and When, and Why use to information provided by American Media. If you note when Chris does his research he covers his topic and hopes his readers will discover WHY. Correct Journalism ti create independent thinking.
I’ve been doing rather superficial research by checking the links you and Paddyannie are posting. Chris may have done his research, but half the time you two don’t seem to have read the articles you post. Can’t remember who it was that posted the daily kos article about immigration and disease. The article concluded that many Latin American countries have better health systems than Texas, and its thrust was making fun of people, like you and Paddyannie, who are making a big fuss about immigrants bringing disease.
I would recommend you read more on the WHO website. I think it would calm some of your irrational fears. I really liked their article on communication with the public, which stresses the need for transparency, building trust, and up-to-date reporting, while acknowledging the need to understand local beliefs, etc.
Hi Jen: It is like Chris states often…he hopes to create individual thinking. Creative thinking is my preferred term. This sharing of venue of thought process was one taught in our schools and universities that has created our great inventors, researchers, new technology, etc. I suspect Paddyannie like myself is a multi-tasker. .
Not hysteria…Just good old American Common Horse Sense …
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/health/patient-at-mount-sinai-has-ebola-like-symptoms-hospital-says.html?_r=0
Kathy, I don’t understand why you cite this article. It tells stories of a few false alarms. In all the cases described, the patient did not have Ebola. So what?
Well, Jen now can you see why we suck under current government controls today? Open Borders …Code III in place in affected countries. American children being affected with a mutation of paralysis from new strain of Polio, TB resistant to known treatments. Four hundred infants in Texas with TB. These organisms know no prejudice or bias such as Foot and Mouth. Now look at what is on line for travel warnings: http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices
Now why did not an Executive Order go out to test all Travelers from these areas be held in quarantine for three days? Why?
Hi Jen: The article clearly points out that New Yorkers that due to 1. International Airport in their State. 2. High volume of international foreign visitors. this is threat of Ebola is being taking seriously by New Yorkers. Some people do care how many people they could kill by visiting West Africa. Could it be because they know THAT COULD HAPPEN? No one dreamed before 9-11 in New York such things could happen. Not everyone wants to contract Ebola give it to family members so that they can find a vaccine for the disease.
It could also be that the public health system doubt it will happen, but due to the high level of public concern, feel it will improve public confidence to show they are taking extraordinary measures.
I’m a retired biogeographer with a lot of experience building and critiquing mathematical models. Epidemiology isn’t my field, but I know disease spread models well. Ebola is a most fearsome disease, but its low rates of transmission, high rates of mortality, and conspicuous symptoms when the sufferer is infectious make it epidemiologically impotent (thougt a great candidate for germ warfare if an aerosol spray can be developed). A half-competent public health system with a semi-literate population could control an epidemic. Look at those photos in the Huff article. Boots being sterilized by putting them on stakes and leaving them in the sun. Poor kid whose mother has died being disinfected in the open air over raw earth using a dribble of disinfectant. Those trying to control the spread of the disease in Africa face enormous obstacles . . . which would not be faced in any place that had even a rudimentary public health system and a population that with strong customs relating to washing and honoring the bodies of the dead.
Today is October 14, 2014, Chris wrote this article on August 5, 2014 now we see that our rudimentary public health system is totally unprepared with enormous obstacles to control the spread in the United States.
Hi Jen: You could be right but honestly from what I have read they want more precautions now in the United States.
“(I’m a retired biogeographer with a lot of experience building and critiquing mathematical models. Epidemiology isn’t my field, but I know disease spread models well. Ebola is a most fearsome disease, but its low rates of transmission, high rates of mortality, and conspicuous symptoms when the sufferer is infectious make it epidemiologically impotent. A half-competent public health system with a semi-literate population could control an epidemic. Look at those photos in the Huff article. Boots being sterilized by putting them on stakes and leaving them in the sun. Poor kid whose mother has died being disinfected in the open air over raw earth using a dribble of disinfectant. Those trying to control the spread of the disease in Africa face enormous obstacles . . . which would not be faced in any place that had even a rudimentary public health system and a population that with strong customs relating to washing and honoring the bodies of the dead.
I believe the key words here you use which includes statements made here in this Blog is ” A half-competent (government controlled) public health system.” If the American Government continues on its path to not supply transparency and allow the system’s Leaders the ability to do their jobs…we no longer have even a half competent public health system.
Read more: http://www.border-wars.com/2014/08/the-us-govt-sucks-at-bio-containment.html#ixzz39ilGYKb0
I’m no spring chicken either, and all the blah blah blah i read about ebola being an epidemic in Africa, but it could never come here, reminds me of the start of AIDS, it is only in Africa, then only in Hatie too but will never come here, then just in Califorinia too, then it is only in gay men and IV drug users. Then everybody has to worry that a date could lead to a disease.
Tell me it could never come here? Nobody knows what ebola can or can’t do. The doctors are dying from ebola, if they know so much about how it spreads and how safe it is, why are they dying too?
How long before they and the nurses take a long leave of absence? What good is free health care if the medical people quit? Do not try to tell me that sick medical volunteers can’t come back from Africa with a disease!
True, most diseases don’t come here but AIDS did.
Paddyannie recently posted..Carlin Pugpin Pinscher
Paddyannie growing up the first American surprise listening to the wisdom of age the “It won’t happen in America apparently was that during peace talks with Japan when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. More recently the shocked America of attack on New York, and the Pentagon, etc. Unconscionable slander in Boston Yes, I too remember the Pollyanna attitudes towards warnings of HIV and AIDS. Have a friend who was a Obstetrician Nurse working in hospital delivery room. There were ten woman there delivering babies, two of which were known to have AIDS.
One of the uninfected woman was our mutual friend. Among the women who contracted the AIDS in this Labor/Delivery Room was our mutual friend. You see they did not know it would go airborne.
My main concern is if the CDC is going to quarentine their own people before they return to the US?
I read that the CDC is sending a very large group of people to the ebola places in Africa. Fine, but happens when these people want to return? Doctors and nurses can get sick too.
Paddyannie recently posted..Hybrid Vigour
It is my understanding “The U.S. Agency for International Development is spending $14.5 million to combat the Ebola outbreak and has sent a disaster response team to the area to assist workers, said assistant administrator Dr. Ariel Pablos-Mendez. The work includes sending tens of thousands of protective suits for health care workers.”
I agree, what precautions are being taken for the return to the United States?
There is suppose to be a man on the news tonight in Charlotte NC who recently lost 7 family members to Ebola – they live in Africa. That’s rough, to be both grieving and scared of who else might be next.
Chris of Denver, I understand that a man went to Africa on vacation around New Years, and came back incubating Marburg disease. Guess what city he returned to? Scary isn’t it?
But can you get Ebola from dogs?
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Here is a good article about what is happening in the hospitals in the Ebola areas of Africa. Scary.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/08/world/africa/dont-touch-the-walls-ebola-fears-infect-hospital.html?&_r=0
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Makes me wonder why one person survives when most of his family members don’t? Did he not touch them?
But the article says he is an Ebola survivor – which would imply that he caught Ebola (no, it caught him), but survived. Did his family members love and care for each other until death, and after death, but he went to a hospital instead?
Maybe, like contracting cow pox will later make you immune to small pox, maybe he caught a similar but not fatal virus in the past, which alerted his immune system.
Maybe he inherited a genetic difference which allowed him to survive.
Paddyannie recently posted..3 Sisters
People pray for protection from Ebola, but their priest catches Ebola.
People go to the hospital, but the nurses there are dying of Ebola.
People ask their doctor’s advice about staying healthy, not being caught by Ebola. But the doctors die from Ebola more often than farmers.
People stay at home so the virus won’t get them, but their family comes home carrying Ebola.
Where are the answers? Where are the cures?
Paddyannie recently posted..Real Working Dog
I would like to state US sucks in education regarding accounts and responsibility for African slavery as well. I understand Black Pride with the election of First Black President in the United States but hardly understand why this generation of whites should carry the burden of responsibility for this human bondage. Because:
The slave trade had a profound influence on virtually all of Nigeria. Africa. Slaves were numerous among the Igbo, Yoruba and many other ethnic groups. Many ethnic distinctions, especially in the middle belt between north and south, were reinforced because of slave raiding and defensive measures adopted against enslavement.
It was not until the 17th century, Europeans began establishing ports to participate in the trade of many commodities, and especially slaves. The trans-Atlantic trade accounted for the forced migration of perhaps 3.5 million people between 1650 and 1860, while a steady stream of slaves flowed north across the Sahara for a millennium. Within Nigeria slavery was widespread with social implications that are still evident.
Instead of arguing about color, can we argue about sex?
Half of the (44?) presidents should have been women. We are half of the population. And each state has 2 senators so why isn’t one seat filled by a man and the other by a woman?
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I think this discussion could be equally dead end.
. Presently, we have two high profile woman that certainly do not help women being elected to this position in the United States. Nancy Pelosi, and Hilary Clinton Seems America should be ready for a woman President but strong woman like Sarah Paylin are difficult to make a political puppet. Seems a pathetic situation for our Nation with a total agreement enough of the racial issues. Time for a little real woman equality. How could we ever count on a woman such as Hilary Clinton when she never used her position to speak for women who suffer under the rule of third class citizen and Female Genital mutilation.
Why would Hilary Clinton think American women and men could forget Benghazi and the lies and attempt to run for President of the United States? Oh I get it…..
because she now states does not agree with Obama’s foreign policy.
http://www.guide2womenleaders.com/Current-Women-Leaders.htm
http://www.unwomen.org/en/what-we-do/leadership-and-political-participation/facts-and-figures
To be fair, the next 44 US presidents should be women, so we can have a variety of types. I like Hilary Clinton. It is time we had a woman president. And Hilary is qualified. She isn’t perfect, but what male president was ever perfect either? We shouldn’t expect her to be perfect, or an angel. I hope Hilary wins.
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Paddyannie: Actually I think it should be 50/50 of women in the House of Representatives and Congress, as well. ” Representation 2020: America has some catching up as countries such as Sweden have more women in government then we do. We need to understand the barriers of this under representation of women in elected office. Great heads of State such as Golda Meir and Margaret Thatcher surely exist in our Nation.
Hi Kathy,
I agree. But many people in America don’t want women to have equal rights and equal jobs. But women are the majority of voters, so why isn’t the Senate and House filled with women? Why haven’t we had women presidents yet?
Admittedly, some women have been made to believe that they aren’t as good as men, but still there should have been many more women elected by now.
Paddyannie recently posted..Robin Flys Away.
Hi Paddyannie:
I remember now Senator Barbara Milulsi a senior Democratic Senator in Maryland since 1987 first rising to public local and state governing office, She won the hearts of the poor in the city with her accomplishments. It seemed she has done little to help other women, and business in the state of late however. Could be wrong because the last two Mayors of Baltimore City have been women Shela Dixon, and current Mayor Rawlings-Blake, who appears to be doing a great job for the people of the City of Baltimore for example.
I have been interested in seeing more balance representation not just between parties but more diversity in this representation within federal government systems. Question why has it taken 500 years for women to have equality in American in holding public office?
Current discussions of limiting the number of terms an Elected Senator and/or Representative might help change the structure keeping women who represent 51% of the population women from equal representation?
I have read links such as this one:
http://www.thenation.com/article/178736/why-does-us-still-have-so-few-women-office#
http://www.representation2020.com/
If I remember correctly, the USA became a country in 1776. Women got the right to vote in 1920. Birth control pills were available, only to married women, I think in the late 1950s and to all women by the early 1960s – at least in the state I lived in.
But, although women had previously worked, and often worked long hours in factories during WW2, after the war the soldiers returned home and complained that the women had all the jobs.
Instead of laying off half of the women and replacing them with men, the governments of (if I remember correctly) 39 of the then 48 states made laws making it illegal for any/ all married woman to work.
Well, many of the women had married their sweethearts when they returned from the war, divorce wasn’t much done back then. So many women were sidelined after WW2, and became devalued because they couldn’t work. Many were trapped in terrible marriages because in some states couples could only divorce if they BOTH agreed to a divorce.
I heard about one woman who came home to find her husband sexually molesting their young daughter. She grabbed the girl and fled to her parents’s house. But nobody would hire her until her divorce, and her husband wouldn’t agree to a divorce – he wanted his daughter and wife in his house.
After a long time, the woman’s parents said she couldn’t live with them forever, so since she had kids (just one female) she had to return to her nasty husband.
Lots of men were cruel to their wives and children, but nothing could be done. Most states had laws saying that a woman couldn’t testify in court against her husband, so he got to do whatever he pleased.
Even in states where married women could work, churches often preach against it. Schools made girls wear dresses even in winter. And told girls not to run and play because a boy might look up their dress.
At least the women of WW2 grew up knowing they could work, and they got to experience that during the war – true it was often terrible then, but not as bad as the dullsville that awaited them.
But the girls of my era grew up where “working woman” was used as a greater insult than ” homosexual man” – though both we restricted, the gay men could get fired just for being gay, but women couldn’t get hired at all, at least not in good jobs, and only until married.
These Jim Crow laws for women ruined the rights women did have before. As I saw it, as a child, married women were like slaves with no freedom. True, some of the women might have been treated well by kind husbands, but those who weren’t often had no way to leave.
Women are still often devalued by men, parents, bosses, the government, churches and clubs. Women could be teachers until they got married, but the principal was usually a man – not because any rule said women couldn’t be a principal, but the men held the top spots and only let other men be bosses.
Women were nurses, men were the doctors. Men were the boss, the woman the secretary. People just grew up seeing everything this way, and many never questioned it. Boys born after WW2 were told to be a chemist, an astronaut, a doctor, policeman or fireman. Women were told that they would fall in love, get married and have children, which, of course, meant they couldn’t work.
And even the AKC did the same sort of thing, and they didn’t change until much later than most places, except churches, which still put women “in their place” (barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen). Women did the dirty work raising the dogs, but men were the delegates and higher ups in the club. Their rules excluded women, ask some old women about it.
And churches? Sorry, but that would be like telling a black family to join the KKK. That’s how I feel. Churches made women wear dresses even in winter. They told women they had to stay virgins then marry a church member. They told women to give in to their husband often, but not use any birth control.
When a woman gets elected pope, you can tell me about religion. But unless women are your church’s preachers AND they preach that the genders are equal and should have the same rights, and when the head honchos of your faith are 50% pro-women women, until then, count me as not going to convert. I’d sooner search for Bigfoot, at least nobody would try to tell me what Bigfoot wants me to do.
Paddyannie recently posted..Robin Flys Away.
Paddyannie you are quite correct. I saw this situation for woman getting better but realized I did not want to get married or pregnant until people wore space suits. I did not see this in my immediate family. My grandmother, my mother’s mother both were strong women, that only a strong well adjusted man could handle. When my husband ask my father if he could marry me…my father said, “Do you know what you are letting yourself in for?” “Don’t try to control her with old ideas of male supremacy”. “She has a bad temper …seen other men try”. My father told him I made you this problem, because I never wanted to see my daughters beaten and abused…so she has a mean right hook.”. “She is quiet, gentle and kind and will work hard for you and your family, but don’t try to keep her locked in a house”.
Honestly if security was upped for bio security at airports I don’t think I will be going to the USA much any more. After more than sixteen hours in the air it took me four hours to get out of O’Hare airport alone going into Chicago last week. This is insane. I look like a WASP too, slightly curly nordic blonde with green eyes, I used my Dutch passport.
They should just build sealed domed airport cities so you never really arrive much safer.
Anton can appreciate your point of view. However, have you considered regardless of your destination would you really want to breathe the same air, use the same toilet or be sitting for 16 hours next to a person just coming out of Africa’s Ebola Zones?