The only thing Dublin mauls are Frisbees. Photo by Amy Irvin.
You really don’t hear much about Border Collie maulings against humans. One such incident hit the news recently, so I figure that an analysis is in order.
It certainly isn’t part of the breed stereotype, which typically reinforces their reputation as brilliant, energetic, athletic, human focused, highly trainable and desperate to please. The negatives are simple extensions of these virtues: devious, neurotic, hyperactive, easily bored, demanding, needy, and overly sensitive.
These qualities are the obvious consequence of the selective breeding for specific inbred traits. They are brilliant because we’ve bred them to manage stock independently at great distances from human control, they must think complexly and on their own. They are energetic and athletic because they must physically manage many times their number of stock over those distances with micromanagement and precision which requires agility and speed. They are human focused because they are also expected to take quick and complex commands from a shepherd in the field and to be extensively trained in their youth. Their desire to please has been cultivated in them so that the work itself is the reward for the training and flock management, no treats necessary.
What Border Collies have NOT been bred for in any substantive way is guardian, police, bite, or attack work. Nor have they been bred to go after game, other dogs, or to bait or hold large livestock. And this is why you’re unlikely to find them used “off label” for these sorts of pursuits. They are not large enough to be effective anti-personnel dogs, and their build is for speed and agility not power and strength. Training them in Schutzhund work is an uphill battle against their nature and their liabilities. For instance, many Border Collies are gun shy or fearful of loud noises and other distressing stimuli. Their typical bite style is rapid snaps, they are not prone to hold and jerk their heads after a bite lands. And this is often done in a submissive fearful stance with their head turned back over the shoulder as they move away from the target vs. a head-on assault typical of dogs bred to fight.
But they are still dogs. And any dog can bite. And all breeds have. These are tautologies, and thus aren’t super helpful for those of us who then ask, but what’s the comparative risk of a Border Collie mauling your kid vs. another breed?
The reasons that Border Collies would be less likely to bite than other dogs are pretty obvious. They are bred to be nice, biddable, small, and mostly incapable of physical damage. They are not composed of other breeds that are bred to be fighting dogs or baiting dogs or even serious hunting dogs or prey dogs of any sort. At best we presume that there might be some whippet or other sight hound mixed in, but this is probably balanced with bird dog types which are meant to be attentive but not confrontational of prey. Many of the sorts of behaviors that might be redirected on to humans have been actively bred against in the breed.
The relative absence of Border Collies being implicated in bites, maulings, and deaths speaks to the power of these breeding schemes. Despite these genetic and cultural advantages, Border Collies are not the perfectly bred non-biting dog.
So let’s look at the reasons why Border Collies WILL bite your kid:
(1) Border Collies have been bred to herd, but not harm, stock. This is a modification of their prey drive and increasing the prey drive will increase associated behaviors like hunting, stalking, and attacking. In Border Collies, worrying stock is a no-no, so dogs that bite stock are disqualified from the sport and are usually not tolerated on the farm. But this quality is being kept in check at a high degree of expression, we want the dogs to have much interest and to stalk the animals but not complete the kill or even initiate an attack. This, of course, means that the dogs have been bred to be hot, but not boil. And that’s a delicate and imprecise process. Since this trait has not been bred OUT of the dogs or suppressed to a minimum, it means that when aiming for high interest but not attacks, breeders will miss and produce dogs that go all the way.
(2) Border Collies have been bred to herd stock, not humans. This too is an imprecise art, and despite there not being any advantage in dogs tracking humans, especially children, or cars or other moving things that we don’t want them to herd/stalk/bite, there is not a lot of negative reinforcement or ability to prevent breeding dogs to push stock making them more likely to herd groups of children or bicyclists, or the lawn mower, or cars. If you think about it, many of the modern targets of Border Collies’ interests were not present in enough concentration in their historical realms to be bred against. Shepherds didn’t have to deal with throngs of kids or highways full of cars in their day to day work. The rare instances of such things could be managed with training and wouldn’t necessarily become the basis for breeding decisions.
When we bred Border Collies to work stock, it must have included preserving and combining their natural instincts to hunt, including a fixation on the size, shape, sound, smell, and movement-patterns of prey. Stock dog trainers will tell you that different dogs will key off of these traits and some will be more reactive and responsive to goats over sheep or sheep over cattle, etc. These preferences also are what distinguishes how the dogs chose to stalk and where they will bite if they do so (head vs. heels, for example). While no Border Collie has been bred to focus on the sense triggers displayed by children, there are undeniable similarities. I know that I can stimulate my own dogs by making funny noises or moving in a jerky manner.
(3) Border Collies have been bred to be attentive to humans. Not only does this put them in close proximity to humans (they are not generally an aloof breed), it also primes them to be hyper vigilant and watchful of what their humans are doing. It is more difficult to trigger a dog that is not paying attention or not in the vicinity of a stimulus, and thus the ever-under-foot Border Collie who takes it as a geis to be attentive, is more likely to notice and react to unintentional signals, like those of a child who is not themselves very aware of what signals they are giving off and what signals the dog is displaying.
(4) Border Collies are permissive but sensitive. Some breeds are not permissive at all, they generally make for good guard dogs because they treat unfamiliar or threatening stimuli with a higher degree of response more quickly, and thus ward off unwitting trespassers before they are close enough to be bitten. Swift to growl can mean less chance of a bite, much like a rattle snake’s defenses not being very effective if they only rattle when you’re too close to deviate your path. While Border Collies don’t intentionally lure you in with the intent of pouncing, they are more likely to signal with body posture and their eyes than they are to growl meaning that oblivious humans who are not aware or can not “speak” dog body language will miss the warning signs as the dogs become more and more agitated. This combined with their general bent toward sensitivity and reactivity means that a bite out of fear (versus aggression, a responsive not self-reinforcing sort of bite) is not unheard of in this breed.
(5) Border Collies are still dogs, and thus all the non-breed specific reasons that dogs bite still apply to them. They will bite when they are in pain, when they are startled, when they are threatened, etc.
My own bias aside, the numbers bear out the truth that the factors pushing Border Collies to bite, maul, and kill are clearly outweighed by the factors preventing such. There’s zero reason to think that there is some media conspiracy covering up children killed and maimed by Border Collies in furtherance of some plot against other breeds. There’s zero reason to think that breed plays no part in Border Collie’s good nature despite the tautologies that apologists seize on, like “all dogs can bite.” And there’s zero reason to think that people who own Border Collies are magically superior dog trainers and handlers and environments that operate so much more efficiently and safely on a wished-for but false “blank slate” such that we might “blame the deed and not the breed” or hyperventilating about the “owners” and “how they’re raised” instead of correctly accessing that nature trumps nurture and man has so heavily steered the nature of dogs.
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A *slightly* honeyed view of Collies in my view, Christopher. I deal with a lot of collies and collie crosses through my rescue. I’ve never seen one maul (and would be amazed to ever see that), but I’ve seen dozens and dozens nip (joggers/prams/bicycles/car wheels) when they are anxious/over-stimulated and under-trained.
I have to watch my own border Feeby – the nicest dog on the planet, but she has a propensity to dive in and nip a jogger’s heels or calves – genetically programmed of course.
They rarely leave more than a slight graze – again, programmed to not hurt the stock.
Strangely, telling a jogger not to worry because that’s the worst thing they will do doesn’t seem to go down terribly well…
I hope I made that clear, this is, if anything, a nipping breed. I don’t deny it at all:
“Their typical bite style is rapid snaps, they are not prone to hold and jerk their heads after a bite lands”
“(2) Border Collies have been bred to herd stock, not humans. This too is an imprecise art, and despite there not being any advantage in dogs tracking humans, especially children, or cars or other moving things that we don’t want them to herd/stalk/bite, there is not a lot of negative reinforcement or ability to prevent breeding dogs to push stock making them more likely to herd groups of children or bicyclists, or the lawn mower, or cars.”
Chris here is a perfect example of Parents using an older child and in this case Border Collies as baby sitters. If these home activities are under parental supervision some adult needs serious lessons in common sense.
Sorry wrong U tube, but note on Aggressive Border Collie it is not a pure bred…it is a hybrid mix.
Good analysis of breed temperament. Would be interesting to see it extended to other breeds. I’ve never regarded borders as kids’ dogs . . . because they are sensitive, intense, and reactive.
Must have been a slow news day. A five year old nipped in the face (sorry, that’s not a mauling) by an elderly dog, whatever the breed, is not news. Kids do stupid things. Parents often fail to read signals that the dog is fed up or in pain. I got a good face bite by an Irish setter when I was around five. The event, quite properly, was put in the ‘shit happens’ category. I got a few stitches. The dog was probably put in another room and kept away from kids in the future.
A dog that wants a kill mayl go for the throat. I’d guess this dog was out to warn . Dogs rarely go for the eyes . . . not an easy target. Face bites to kids are probably the most common bit reported.
Good analysis of breed temperament. Would be interesting to see it extended to other breeds. I’ve never regarded borders as kids’ dogs . . . because they are sensitive, intense, focussed, and reactive.
Must have been a slow news day. A five year old nipped in the face (sorry, that’s not a mauling) by an elderly dog, whatever the breed, is not news. Kids do stupid things. Parents often fail to read signals that the dog is fed up or in pain.
I got a good face bite by an Irish setter when I was around five. The event, quite properly, was put in the ‘shit happens’ category. I got a few stitches. The dog was probably put in another room and kept away from kids in the future.
If the dog was out to kill it would have gone for the throat. Face bites are generally a warning, not an attack. Never heard of a dog going for the eyes (as the reporter hints). I think they’d be a hard target. I don’t know about Borders, specifically, but I’ve seen kelpies go for a face nip to manage sheep in Australia. Usually without contact. Seems to be what the dog resorts to if ‘eye-ing’ doesn’t succeed. Sheep are probably better at dodging and better protected around the face than a five year old child.
> I’ve never regarded borders as kids’ dogs . . . because they are sensitive, intense, focused, and reactive.
This is the quandary, what is a “kids dog?” If people mean a sort of “buy it and forget it” dog that doesn’t require any time to train and stimulation given the hectic lifestyle of new parents with toddlers and such, that would preclude bringing in a Border Collie, really. Even if out of casual neglect, the dog would not be happy.
With infants and their stilted movements and lack of awareness of the dogs, I don’t think a BC would be precluded but it would certainly depend on the dog because many BCs react to those stilted movements like they would stock, and if you have a BC that doesn’t like getting pounced on and baby hands in their face at random times, you’d be asking for an unhappy dog and possibly a bitten toddler.
But if we’re talking a dog that would make a great companion, without much adult supervision, for say a 7 year old+, then BCs would make a wonderful dog.
My guess is that most people would agree that larger, lopey sort of fluff ball breeds, like a Bernese or Newfoundland would more naturally tolerate the whims of toddlers, although even there you’re risking having a dog with the size to do some damage if it wanted to.
Chris sorry this is the right one, that some adult must think is cute. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsxvUWjEOZI
Those dogs dont appear to be herding anything. Just playing in circles with themselves while the children do the same. There is of course the danger one bites a leg instead of the other dog but otherwise it looks like harmless fun time.
I didn’t now they barked quite so much, from what I’ve seen they’ve been rather silent types?
Anton I agree but having herding breed my entire life I pay close attention to pitches of their barks. Indeed found that Border Collies do not bark nearly as much as say a Rough Collie. This so called play behavior is antagonistic and the look on the older child’s face reveals she is quite aware of how she is specifically irritating the one Border Collie while the other Border Collie is attempting to check mate. This is what I see and would as a mother and herding dog lover would have stop this nonsense not filmed my stupidity. Each dog when intelligent even from the same breed as you can see with the three dogs in the video react differently. The one dog could care less on the sofa. Now what happens when that older girl gets what she deserves a nip to instruct her not to be acting like the world revolves around her?
Good points.
I notice this too in JRTs [guffaw] if someone like my better half for example decides to jump me and tickle me to death the JRTS which are almost (excluding bed time arrangements) my affair will pounce on them and defend my integrity. They wont bite as such but can get quite carried away with claw, muscle and assorted highly excitable nose butting and exertion sounds which border on mob mentality. It usually stops them tickling me however the dogs will agitate for a sparring with them for the next half an hour or so until they call their bluff and scream “rat”! Dogs scatter.
Children just don’t understand dogs very well and puppies children it’s true. They do however learn by growing up with each other and this little game probably ended up in such a lesson.
Don’t incite the dogs to bite you is one of life’s more valuable lessons.
I suppose this is also breed specific; depending on the breed involved. If this was two pitbul puppies I just know one of the children would fall and hit their silly heads on something as they are infinitely less athletic than a pitbull and will always be so.
Im not sure I would’ve intervened here, though, unless of course I was trying to concentrate on something more important like the new “Game of Thrones” I bagged in Shanghai last week.
You can be too hands on with children and dogs, not so?
Of course it doesn’t go over well. Since when do ignorant dog owners believe their dog has any right to nip or jump at people. Yeah watch your dogs please. Tired of people’s dogs bathing at my toddlers and I while we’re out for walks it’s irritating and yes a collie nipped my two year old nephew in the Nose he has a scar now. Really not okay. My toddlers don’t jump at and nip at your
Dogs maybe the dogs could just stop,
Really you would like a dog to bite the child? Why don’t you instruct the child and the dog to behave. Stupidity of some dog owners trying to manipulate the world to revolve around their dogs.
Some of the “lopey, fluff ball breeds” like the Newfoundland aren’t better companions for children by chance. Just like BC have been bred for specific behaviours, so too has the Newfoundland. They have been bred to be a water rescue dog and as such have natural life SAVING instincts.
Note, that they are *not* life PROTECTION instincts and as such have not been bred for guarding like the Great Pyrenees which has a very different temperament and natural abilities (livestock guardian). So based upon size and fur, these two breeds who are only a colour difference away (in the eyes of many in the public) are quite dissimilar in nature. Both fantastic breeds and the Pyr can make an awesome family companion dog, but just as the herding breeds have a wide range of bred proclivities, so too the working group breeds.
The first line of the AKC breed standard states, “Sweetness of temperament is the hallmark of the Newfoundland; this is the most important single characteristic of the breed.”
But it is still a dog, no matter how tolerant and sweet.
> Must have been a slow news day. A five year old nipped in the face (sorry, that’s not a mauling) by an elderly dog, whatever the breed, is not news. Kids do stupid things. Parents often fail to read signals that the dog is fed up or in pain.
True, but I’d say that given the size of the child the damage was significant enough to require medical attention and thus if we’re trying to separate a nip from a bite from a mauling, if it requires more than an ornamental stitch, I’d err on calling it a more serious attack.
Choice of location of bite is not insignificant either.
And I’d like to be fair. Pit bull type apologists always try and minimize attacks in any way possible, downplaying the injuries and such. The number and severity of Border Collie incidents is so minor that there’s really no reason to try and minimize them. The data speaks for itself. The UK incident from years back that I referred to in another comment was more severe than this if I recall, and these two are the most significant ones I’ve seen that I remember. I don’t recall any BC deaths at all.
Can’t say the same thing about certain other breeds.
> If the dog was out to kill it would have gone for the throat.
Yeah, this wasn’t a sustained attack from the looks of it. As I mentioned on that post where a dog took off a girl’s lip, the face is full of loosely attached skin that is the most vulnerable to damage.
And yeah, heading and heeling genes are there and with all dogs in general, they are more likely to face of, face-to-face. Here, I’d suggest, the dog was at the right height to be at her face given her age.
That seems to be the pattern in the other BC mauling. Had the kid been a foot taller, it could have been an arm bite instead.
Face and heels are where BCs naturally bite, a face bite doesn’t mean the BC was trying to kill the target, it’s just where they instinctively go to control unmanageable stock.
Unfortunately a face bite in a child can cause not only extensive damage to delicate features (eyes or lips for example) but also disfiguring scars that will be there for life.
A dog with proper bite inhibition will not bite down hard enough to do serious damage. Any breed can have a lack of bite inhibition (usually caused by being removed from siblings too early but also in some breeds this is selected for).
It’s a credit to the breed that although BCs have a very low bite Threshold (propensity to bite) I.e they are very likely to nip when stimulated, they generally have a very high bite inhibition (selected for so that they don’t tear up stock) so that when they do bite its just a nip not a mauling (unlike SOME breeds better left unmentioned).
That is not to say a border collie doesn’t have the jaw strength to maul – they most certainly do. My BC could snap ham bones in half with his jaws – if he ever wanted to kill me I’m sure he could have shorn my hand clean off my wrist and with canines over an inch long could easily have torn out my jugular or any one of the more easily accessible veins in my arms or legs.
They dont need the shake and hold instinct to be deadly – wolves don’t tend to shake and hold (they usually bite and slash large animals and then chase until it dies of blood loss) but they are efficient predators nonetheless.
Knowing you have a pet that COULD kill you if it wanted to but chooses not to is a little scary, a little awe inspiring (humans must have been crazy to let wolves into their homes!) and a little wonderful. I can see why some people end up with those unmentionable breeds despite mass media coverage of them mauling their owners.
But I can also see the sense in picking a breed that was bred NOT to kill, and I believe border collies are one of those breeds.
I wouldn’t hesitate to choose a collie as a kid’s dog. I also would never hesitate to visit the vet at the first sign of unprovoked aggression. If no medical reason can be found it is time to find a solution. Re-homing is risky because it only moves the problem to someone else. This dog tried to warn several times. Breaks my heart, but if I couldn’t find a competent sheep guy with good sense and no kids to take him, I would probably have the dog put down.
Also, this was no mauling as Jennifer pointed out. Normal dogs bite and release, like this one did.
> Re-homing is risky because it only moves the problem to someone else.
I’ve said elsewhere on the blog that Border Collies don’t make particularly good rescue dogs. They are so human focused, smart, and sensitive and reactive that going “kennel crazy” is a real issue. Elsewhere in dogdom, there’s a pernicious juvenile quality to the heart bleeders who would rather pawn off a dog and “save it” versus have it killed, no matter the risk to the families.
> Also, this was no mauling as Jennifer pointed out. Normal dogs bite and release, like this one did.
Yeah, it’s marginal. The girl has facial scars and a black eye. Good luck finding anything done by a Border Collie that’s more serious. In all the years I’ve been writing the blog and have a constant google news keyword search running, there have been so very few Border Collie on human incidents that caused disfiguring damage. Off the top of my head I can only think of one other case that was in the UK, very similar, family went to visit the Grand Parents on their farm and a little kid got facial tears from an older Border Collie.
I’d go into the specifics of this incident or the other one, and obviously compare to what happens with other breeds, but it’s almost unnecessary, the sheer volume of damage other breeds do vs. Border Collies makes it almost irrelevant. There just aren’t that many BC incidents to report.
Resisting the temptation to actually express an opinion.
https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/LiteratureReviews/Pages/The-Role-of-Breed-in-Dog-Bite-Risk-and-Prevention.aspx
In summary: (1) Big dogs (logically enough) do more dangerous attacks.
(2) The most common breeds of dogs (according to date and location) do more attacks.
(3) Small to medium breeds such as ‘collies, spaniels and toy breeds’ bite more often than larger breeds, but do less damage simply because they are smaller.
> Resisting the temptation to actually express an opinion.
Really? Why?
> In summary
You didn’t read that page you linked very carefully and are misrepresenting what it says rather profoundly. It doesn’t contradict what I’ve said.
I’ll also point out, since you mention Collies, that a Border Collie != a rough or smooth Collie. And this isn’t a slight difference within the family, like you might find with the Belgian breeds, there is a profound and definitional behavioral difference that distinguishes the Border Collie from the other Collies. That is, of course, the eye, which puts the dogs at a distance from their stock instead of being a heading or heeling breed that is encouraged to use teeth as profoundly as the other herding breeds.
Strange Chris smooth collies I have found are prone to nip and not as sweet nature d as the rough?
You are right on the mark with this Chris! I wish more people paid attention to the signals their dogs are giving them. Having a knowledge of Border Collie nature is critical when you own one or are around them. You have to teach children and sometimes even adults how to act around BC. Especially if you have a super sensitive one. So many people want these insanely intelligent dogs yet don’t do their homework about the breed and the dog ends up paying the price of ignorance. The Border Collie communicates just fine. It’s our responsibility to learn their language. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Problem is herding breeds are generally more intelligent today than people. Certainly, just like the Rough Collie they give more than signals they warn by growling, barking and communicating they truly do not like aggressive behavior. The biggest problem in a society where the parents who are suppose to be disciplining are sadly one slice of bread short of a sandwich. Do dogs have teeth? My biggest concern is what some Pit Bull breeders are doing in the whelping box with Border collies and other breeds as well. How many people will actually know the difference between a hybrid mix and the real thing? Many times people in shelters today are not disclosing the knowledge of specimens that are hybrids of the Pit Bull. The phenotype in first generation crosses can be quite deceiving especially to those pet owners purchasing from a Shelter .
Now this link below actually does warn the owners of this mix breed.
“It is a mix of both prey-oriented dogs, so care should be taken at every step. It will try to herd anything that moves, but because of the attentiveness, training could be easier. Training and early socializing is a MUST. It has lots of energy.”
“★ One of its parent, Pit Bull has this quality of getting aggressive out of nowhere, so it is advisable to look out for these signs and take steps accordingly. It might not be a good idea to take it to crowded places or places where there will be many other dogs.
Resource:
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/information-about-the-border-collie-pit-bull-mix.html
The brag on U-Tube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWx-Z-SFps8
that training is going to solve all the problems that can occur from a dog breed that can get aggressive out of nowhere. Unlike the Herding breeds it does not growl or bark as a warning you are in dangerous territory. Worse has this mix breeding created the mauling when it attacks? I have never heard in 60 years of a Border Collie mauling or have bitten a child. I know people who have children and later grandchildren with Border Collies. Why jeopardize one breed to save a breed that has been bred to be aggressive for over a hundred years? Even today a well bred Rough Collie will guard and some like the old working Collie keep to themselves with a wide berth sizing up a stranger. Approach by a stranger will circle them as if herding them and may only bark at them if they attempt to advance toward them. Without this Collie’s permission don’t try to touch because you could get nipped. Mind your manners because you will get warned beforehand with growling.
LOL this will not be found in your show dogs, this characteristic had to bred out of them. This characteristic would be penalized as shyness and maybe even some calling it aggressive. Dog is just intelligent and knows some people are just up to no good.
My concerns are the so called hybrid breeding of Pit Bulls to attempt to correct an aggressive temperament because of years of breeding for a Blood Sport. Border Collies like our Rough and Smooth Collies come from a working heritage as a herding breed.
Collies have a soft, sweet personality. They do not do well in an environment with frequent tension or loud voices. They are peaceful and polite and sweet-natured.
The mix breeding may give you a dog that looks like a Border Collie to you or a Labrador, but it will not produce the temperament or the ability to think for itself like is found in the Herding breeds. Now the public is going to learn the hard way through rescues.
So rescues are damaged goods? Hardly. Unless they have a specifically aggressive temperament mixed in (pit bull, dachshund, chihuahua, gray wolf, etc), mixes are just as sound as any purebred, and depending on the job asked of them, just as capable. All my dogs have been mixes, and I’d have it no other way. Remember, pure-breeding has only been around for 200 years. For most of the 30,000 years we’ve had domestic wolves (dogs), there were no purebreds, but they have been Man’s Best Friend all along.
Mixes are not the issue. Spending time in Canine Auschwitz is the issue. Rescue dogs are damaged goods. Some more than others, but it’s not at all just limited to aggression, although that is an issue especially considering how many shelter dogs are in the pit bull and chihuhua family. It’s also mental trauma from being warehoused in an institutional setting with exposure to other reactive and scared and neglected dogs and staff with compassion fatigue. The effects of incarceration and the likes are well documented in humans and we have the ability to rationalize and understand the circumstances. Confinement and captivity of animals leads to any sort of neurotic and lasting self destructive behaviors.
Shelters are not summer camps with flowers and rainbows.
We’re using two different senses of the word “rescue” here. I take your point about traumatized dogs, of any lineage. Your term “canine Auschwitz” is probably pretty apt here. Some of these dogs come from genetically aggressive lines (pit bulls, dogos, rottweilers, etc.). Some of these dogs were never socialized as pups, kept chained up all day, beaten, etc. Add to that the stress of being in a shelter, and yes, you’re right, that can make a dog a ticking time bomb, in which case it may be both more humane to the dog and safer for people to just euthanize the dog.
However, the term “rescue” is a broad one. My sister’s family has a purebred vizsla, rescued at age 9 months from a breed-specific rescue group. His first owners were not ideal, but not monsters, and my sister’s family have done a great job bringing him up to speed, and making him a fine family dog now.
As for my family, we have two husky x stock dog mixes rescued at age 2 months a year apart. Both were young enough to be properly socialized and raised with loving care, both have a healthy dose of genetic diversity, and both are now wonderful young dogs. The older one (age 2.5) is husky/Aussie/GSD, and he’s an excellent guard dog. The younger one (age 1.5) is husky/cattle dog/lab/bullmastiff/Japanese spitz, and she is one of the most biddable dogs I’ve ever seen. Both are great jogging companions, and friendly with guests and other dogs. And yet, they are technically rescues. Rescued from puppyhood, but rescued nonetheless.
And there are other rescued dogs out there whose genetic makeup is sound, whose previous home was not so bad, and whose tenure in a shelter has been short enough, that they are not ruined; they are not damaged goods. If people have reason to believe a dog is a menace, they should certainly not get that dog, nor should professionals pressure them to do so. But the rescue movement is a worthwhile one, and many rescue dogs are fine dogs, like mine and my sister’s.
We’re using two different senses of the word “rescue” here. I take your point about traumatized dogs, of any lineage. Your term “canine Auschwitz” is probably pretty apt here. Some of these dogs come from genetically aggressive lines (pit bulls, dogos, rottweilers, etc.). Some of these dogs were never socialized as pups, kept chained up all day, beaten, etc. Add to that the stress of being in a shelter, and yes, you’re right, that can make a dog a ticking time bomb, in which case it may be both more humane to the dog and safer for people to just euthanize the dog.
However, the term “rescue” is a broad one. My sister’s family has a purebred vizsla, rescued at age 9 months from a breed-specific rescue group. His first owners were not ideal, but not monsters, and my sister’s family have done a great job bringing him up to speed, and making him a fine family dog now.
As for my family, we have two husky x stock dog mixes rescued at age 2 months a year apart. Both were young enough to be properly socialized and raised with loving care, both have a healthy dose of genetic diversity, and both are now wonderful young dogs. The older one (age 2.5) is husky/Aussie/GSD, and he’s an excellent guard dog. The younger one (age 1.5) is husky/cattle dog/lab/bullmastiff/Japanese spitz, and she is one of the most biddable dogs I’ve ever seen. Both are great jogging companions, and friendly with guests and other dogs. And yet, they are technically rescues. Rescued from puppyhood, but rescued nonetheless.
And there are other rescued dogs out there whose genetic makeup is sound, whose previous home was not so bad, and whose tenure in a shelter has been short enough, that they are not ruined; they are not damaged goods. If people have reason to believe a dog is a menace, they should certainly not get that dog, nor should professionals pressure them to do so. But the rescue movement is a worthwhile one, and many rescue dogs are fine dogs, like mine and my sister’s
After watching the news story and reading the accompanying article, it doesn’t seem to me that Aggie’s owners even gave him a fair shot. They said they noticed several weeks ago that his personality towards the girl had changed. The dog was at least ten years old, if my ten year old dog’s personality changed all of a sudden, I would have that dog into the vet ASAP. A brain tumor or many other illnesses could trigger the personality change in a dog. I’m very sorry that the girl has to go through this, but those owners were also at fault.
I’ve owned BC and BC crosses for over ten years myself, some of them are harder than others, but biting a child was never on the radar, even for the extremely dog aggressive and cat eating BC mix.
I suppose not breeding Border Collies to strict working criteria could predispose the dogs to being anything. Just another dog capable of mauling anything even stock, albeit in perhaps a slightly different manner to a Chihuahua or a Dogo Argentino for example?
JRT’s are also nippers with strangers. They go straight for the heels. My own where hanging off my trouser leg for ages as puppies, they love it, they never bit me, though, even by mistake, paying very carefully attention to where they take hold.
I think in the JRT’s case its a matter of size, though. Here too people tend to ignore their capabilities as extremely effective guard dogs and pay the price.
Our vet has learnt to walk backwards. He did this from day one as he thinks it’s safer with riled up JRTs. I think it arouses even more suspicion….who walks backwards for heavens sake and a vet loaded with nasty needles doing so is almost an invitation.
LOL My Jack Russells have always adored strangers! But then I socialize and train early and often. My current JRT even has an AKC CGC on him, just for funzies 🙂
I was going to train him for Human Remains Detection (my Border Collie at the time was qualified as a SAR K9), but never got around to it. We threw the JRT in for the CGC Test while we were there for the BC’s certification and he nailed it.
Heavens no my JRTS don’t have any CGCs, SARs or BC’s but especially no AKCs or any other completely unfamiliar acronyms, just the JRT bit in full force.
We didn’t do the socialising, obedience training, thing. They are born naturals. They taught themselves to sit and that’s good enough for me. This usually involves a cute little fluffy animal. I ignore them anyway as I never give it to them no matter how smartly they sit on their bums with cocked heads looking at me lovingly.
RATs on the other hand they are welcome too.
We live in the National Park miles from anyone.
Our closest neighbour was recently kidnapped, and hidden in the bottom of our garden. I thought they were wild pigs as the dogs were jumping so high they could see over the top of the six foot fence. They did this for a few days making an awful racket. The kidnappers initially got away with 50 000 000$ which has been turning up in sealed plastic bags buried all around our hillside.
Yes most certainly a little tracking expertise at this stage would be very useful. I tried rubbing a grubby 20$ bill in their noses and inciting them to “seek!”. They thought it was those RATs I was after and bolted in a dozen different directions to the various fresh rat holes they been monitoring.
Are you sure you have a JRT?
In the part of Scotland where I live, the sheepdogs not only work with the sheep but also tend to double up as guard dogs for the farm , who will at least bark if anybody approaches the house. They may also chase passing vehicles or bicycles . It is not uncommon for the postman to be bitten by sheepdogs guarding the farm. so most farms have a post box on the nearest road. If visiting a farm, I would be very wary if the sheepdogs are loose outside!
I’ve seen a handful of aggressive border collies. In each case, they were backyard dogs that barked at people and dogs walking by, and tried to bite through or under the fence. As you said, part of this is natural canid territoriality. Lack of socialization may have also played a role. Moreover, though, it’s likely these intelligent, athletic border collies were bored out of their minds. They probably had a lot of energy and nowhere to put it, so they became reactive. I don’t know the details of the attack you’re referring to, but the same factors could’ve been at play there, too.
I have to say, I actually see more border collies and BC crosses with dog aggression and human aggression than any other breed of herding dog. Some of this may be geography (other trainers see more problem breeds in other parts of the country), but I think the propensity to neophobia, OCD, and anxiety are really prevalent in the BC’s I see in this area. I honestly would not recommend any of my clients or friends get one here – the aussies and heelers in Oklahoma are overall more balanced, sensible, reliable dogs. So, there again is another complication – regional differences in the dogs you’re going to see, even within a breed.